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EdBannister
Mountain climber
13,000 feet
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Nov 20, 2016 - 01:06pm PT
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so you just abandoned your own criteria...
you changed standards after you realized reality was contrary to your opinion...
well at least that is consistent
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
13,000 feet
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Nov 20, 2016 - 01:06pm PT
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EVERY GEOLOGIC RECORD shows us within normal and recurring limits
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
13,000 feet
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Nov 20, 2016 - 01:18pm PT
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and Ed. you are right on the variables, many of which we do not understand...
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
13,000 feet
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Nov 20, 2016 - 01:20pm PT
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mute, who produced your graph...
who are they funded by?
i cited source, you did not.
and since you cited high school science as a criterion for measuring intelligence, was your record better than mine?
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Nov 20, 2016 - 01:22pm PT
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The NY Times just had an article today citing how climate change deniers lately have taken to listing every last climate change denier in the universe of climate scientists to promote their cause. EdBannister seems to fit this run-of-the-mill climate change-denier type.
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
13,000 feet
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Nov 20, 2016 - 01:29pm PT
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Malamute,
i will stop responding
you insult me personally based on assumption about high school science performance,
when you are shown to be incorrect, you do not apologize, or even acknowledge your error, or rude behavior. instead you change criteria...
that is not consistent, to use the kindest accurate terms possible.
so, i cease talk ing to a person who is not consistent.
for the rest, look at geologic time, not the last 7 minutes on the planet.. the office of 30 day forecast at NOAH, is 60% inaccurate. but they will tell you the models, and assumptions are all valid and tested.. they are funded.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Nov 20, 2016 - 01:38pm PT
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You don't agree with me so you are stupid!
It is useless to have a reasonable debate with folks that think like this.
carry on
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
13,000 feet
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Nov 20, 2016 - 01:39pm PT
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you are correct PUD
note i used no such term, or i hope did not show that attitude.
as for steak, i am occasionally in, i know my place as omnivore in the food web.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Nov 20, 2016 - 01:58pm PT
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and Ed. you are right on the variables, many of which we do not understand...
this is true, but we know how much those variables affect the predictions, and the answer is not so much... when you account for the additional CO2 in the atmosphere, which is the largest factor causing the climate change...
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Nov 20, 2016 - 02:18pm PT
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If for no other reason other than something on the order of 95% of climate scientists believe that humans are significant contributors to climate change, I would believe that humans are significant contributors to climate change. End of story unless I have some extraordinary insight that I know most humans don't have. If you think otherwise, you are of the conspiracy theory ilk, IMO.
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Dave
Mountain climber
the ANTI-fresno
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Nov 20, 2016 - 02:31pm PT
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"Dave, why don't you grow up and learn that others can have opinions different from yours. Better yet, throw yourself into a volcano. Too many people on this planet anyway. Because as a solution, the vegan option would have a solid positive impact. And I don't think that methane and the other hydrocarbons are addressed by a carbon tax scenario (although I could be wrong on that), despite the fact that CH4 has 21 times the greenhouse gas effect of CO2."
The point is that one group doesn't get to dictate what another group eats / drinks / puts in their bodies.
Banning drugs has worked out fabulously, hasn't it? So, lets ban steak / meat?
That is a stellar idea.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Nov 20, 2016 - 03:54pm PT
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When I took the climatology course at the U of Chicago in 1959 it was considered the easiest class in the meteorology curriculum. Looks like it has become more sophisticated over the years.
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Nov 21, 2016 - 08:02am PT
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Great link, Malemute!
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Nov 21, 2016 - 08:18am PT
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just because the majority believes it, doesn't make it true.
Pud, it's not a majority "belief."
With science, there are ways to "prove" things. Certainly, no proof with climate can be 100% accurate, but things can get very close. So, it's not just a casual belief based on an opinion, as you seem to imply.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Nov 21, 2016 - 08:31am PT
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NWO2, you keep posting this, as if you know this outcome to be true if we restrict our carbon output.
I'd just like to know how you folks would feel about living a life of.....
No meat consumption. No private car ownership. Calorie ration cards. No private land ownership.
Restrictions on freedom to travel.
OK, let's suppose this is the end result of reducing our carbon footprint to one that allows for a livable planet. Can you enumerate the alternative where we don't limit our carbon footprint? Come on, just do it once.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Nov 21, 2016 - 08:35am PT
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EVERY GEOLOGIC RECORD shows us within normal and recurring limits
 EdBannister
Really EdBannister? How is it then that both EdH and Malemute show different records from different verified sources?
That your graph was so quickly debunked doesn't make you look like the smartest kid on the block, as you claim to be.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Nov 21, 2016 - 10:01am PT
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Ed H posts the standard alarmist fare, a graph designed to sensationalize the alarmist argument. Widen the graph out a bit into geologic time Ed and your little 400 ppm spike isn't even an ant hill compared to long periods measured in the multiple thousands of ppm's. Some of these geologic co2 highpoint s coincided with extreme ice ages.
Let's look at our nearest planetary neighbors: Venus at 96% CO2, Mars at 96% CO2. Compare this to earth at.04% CO2. What is the unifying theory that works near perfectly to explain their respective climatic conditions? What theory initiated by Maxwell and elaborated by Feynman et al explains planetary climatic conditions infinitely better than the pathetic CO2 control knob pushed by the commie/facsist/eco freaks?
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Nov 21, 2016 - 10:15am PT
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commie/facsist/eco freaks?
you forgot black, educated, gay, liberal, tree-hugging, native american jewish muslim hippies Rick, No free college for you.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Nov 21, 2016 - 10:56am PT
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I don't know what the policy outcome will be, but I do know the science will not change whatever that outcome is.
To me, this is the critical truth. Chemistry and physics don't change whether we impose draconian restrictions on freedom or ignore human influence on climate. What we do, however, affects our environment, including our climate, because of that chemistry and physics. (Sorry, biologists. I'm treating biological effects as reduced to chemical and physical reactions.)
From my market-oriented perspective, I see no viable argument for ignoring the science. Yes, we lack 100% agreement. We also lack 100% certainty. So what? Failure to take what we know into account because we aren't certain is a little like deciding I don't need to wear my seat belts because I don't know if I'll be in an collision.
Concern for being in a collision doesn't mean I decide to drive only if I'm as heavily armored as an M1 A1 Abrams Tank, but it does mean I take relatively cheap precautions like using my seat belts. We can - and need to - make similarly informed decisions about how our activities affect climate, and what changes are worth making.
John
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