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darkmagus
Mountain climber
San Diego, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 18, 2015 - 03:45pm PT
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Whoa, those are more like potatoes, not potato chips!
Hope to see you out there, Sanstone, I heckle because I know no better.
Also because heckling is funny.
But rest assured, we share your sentiments on the preservation and conservation of the precious Woodson granitic eggs.
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Sanstone
climber
San Diego
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Mar 18, 2015 - 03:52pm PT
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Pictures are fun, and exciting. Here's on for your enjoyment. They are also like firearms, dangerous in the hands of irresponsible individuals with egotistical motives. Especially hands that like to rewrite history to accelerate their own impatient and selfish timelines. Ask Ryan Gosling.
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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Mar 18, 2015 - 05:57pm PT
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Starslab is one of my favorites at Woodson.
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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Mar 18, 2015 - 05:59pm PT
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I just hope it cools down one of these weekends. I've been up in the mountains and it is in the 70's up there.
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Sanstone
climber
San Diego
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Mar 18, 2015 - 07:29pm PT
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It's pretty easy to see what went down here just by following the bread crumbs on this thread, 2014 and 2015. Climbers, after exhausting the potential (and vegetation) near Y-Crack, migrated over to the Rexroads. While there, they looked up and saw more potential. While "Bro-uldering" whatever the f*#k that is, they created a "Gold Rush" mentality seeded by Truthdweller's prompted over the last number of years(Thanks Gary), and fertilized with Hubbard's lure of recognition.
Once they finally made it up the hill a short way, it didn't take long for the photos to hit ST. Perfect union: Yohansolo can play with his new drill, Friend can make some new crack videos, Hubbard can get some new material for next guide book, and like Alpha Beta,they can tell a friend and they can tell a friend.
It didn't take them long to trip and fall though. On the same (day/week) Friend starred in, and posted his new video, Yohansolo posted how he got to play with his new drill on Shirley. The same time permanent damage was being done to the Chronicles arete solo. Same bolts, same color, same age. Coincidence? Doubtful.
I showed Hubbard the Chronicles face climbs a week or two earlier and mentioned the need for caution due to the loose flakes. Couple weeks later, the flakes were gone. Coincidence? Doubtful.
Nice work gentlemen. What's next on your list of things to destroy? Better hurry springtime is almost over. You all asked for proof of damage and now you have it. So who is going to step up and apologize? Anybody? Doubtful.
And last off, who am I to speak? The one that's been climbing up there for about 35 years now. Well documented by credible names like Worrall, Leavitt, Hatchett, Shannon, Mckay, Belford, and Foreman.I'm the one that built the current trail, 90% of it by myself, from the bottom to top(About a mile). A minimum of once, at times twice a year, I go top to bottom to clear brush. After the rain I'm up there smoothing the trail with shovel and hoe. I'm well aware of the other token trail work that has been done on the hill by others.
I also have an archive of climbing photos and data regarding the area which I'm happy to share with responsible people. Documentation of the fire damage, regrowth, etc. As far as climbing routes, I have about 50, good to very good ones that i'm positive are mine and have named. Some have needed significant landing area work. Probably another 50, that I've cleaned and climbed, but assumed somebody like Paul, Piggot, or other legend bagged in the late 70's to early 80's. Many of those lie around the summit above K2. As Gonnamuk said "A lot is devoid of potential".
If I see someone is trying to make guide book and blow up the area, I'll just do it myself. I could have done that many years ago. No sense in following a legacy of conflict and disputed climbing history as has been the case at Descanso Wall, El Cajon Mtn, Eagle Peak, Valley of the Moon, and Woodson.
For the record, I have no interest in keeping people from enjoying the area. I just have an interest in keeping people from destroying it, as they have initiated in very short order.
Did people not learn anything from Iron Mountain or Potato Chip Rock on Yelp?
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Sanstone
climber
San Diego
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Mar 18, 2015 - 07:47pm PT
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These are the bolts: One on top of Shirley and one directly above the damage done on the Chronicles arete. "Dear Watson, I think we have a smoking gun". What about it Yohan?[photoid=403192]
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Sanstone
climber
San Diego
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Mar 18, 2015 - 07:50pm PT
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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Mar 18, 2015 - 09:52pm PT
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Where is the photo of the rusty buttonhead on top of Shirley. I was just backing up an established bolt. I will gladly remove and patch any bolt added in error. When was the 5/16" buttonhead placed and have you seen the thread about the exact same type of bolt failing at Owens resulting in a fatality?
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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Mar 18, 2015 - 10:07pm PT
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I initially soloed up the start of the arete to the loose flakes and thought it was a FA. Russian roulette without cleaning. I am very sorry though, please climb it again. There were also established bolts on top of this boulder on the overhang.
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Sanstone
climber
San Diego
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Mar 19, 2015 - 12:19am PT
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I have no problem with the replacement of the bolt on Shirley. Or even if a second 3/8 bolt was placed additionally for "that" climb and the button head removed. That action made sense. I assume that any talk of bolting the face is nothing but bullsh#t, because it is.
As for your invitation to climb my arête climb, I soloed it yesterday, minus the starting hold you removed, and finish hold you removed, and took pictures of the damage you did with my I -phone. About twenty pictures. Amazing what taking the time to get to know the rock can do.
As for Russian Roulette? Thanks for the compliment though. All those corridor climbs were established with no rope, no pad, and no audience. Just time, a wire brush, screwdriver, chalk bag, and respect for the rock. Oh, and Rush on my I-Pod.
My impression is that you are pretty climber. As such, I really can't understand why you didn't go climb the overhang with the two bolts there sitting, waiting to be clipped, or something else.
I' ll take care of the bolt myself. Just please don't do any more damage there. The fact that the area. feels wild is exactly what is good about it.
I do commend you for taking responsibility for the damage. The only question that remains is, who were you with?
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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Mar 19, 2015 - 07:26am PT
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As I said, if I had known that face had been climbed before, I would have climbed up to the first loose flake and backed off as I could see many more loose holds above and do not have a death wish. I assumed it had not been climbed and wanted to leave a sustainable and repeatable climb so I removed the loose flakes.
I was with Jonny Woodward that day.
I also put in one more bolt that trip on a boulder at the very top of the ridge. There was an established crack climb with a bolt on top and we were trying the face to the right and added a bolt to TR that climb.
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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Mar 19, 2015 - 07:52am PT
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Rush is also one of my favorite bands and I have seen them twice in concert.
I am sorry that you feel I "damaged" the rock but I would disagree and still feel it is a better climb now and repeatable.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Mar 19, 2015 - 08:07am PT
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Sanstone, I think part of the problem is that no one I know (that's not saying much) know's anything about what's you have done in that area. Personally, I like to explore a lot, so heading over to the South side was only natural for me. The solitude is very appealing. And I know you're pissed about Martian Chronicles being irreparably altered, and I don't blame you. But with what little I know of Johann, I'm sure he would not of changed it if he knew what was going on up there. In the few times I have spoken with him, I have learned a lot of positive things from him (and Woodward). Actually, just like I learned a lot when I spoke with you on the phone. All what I consider positive stuff.
Communication is key I think. I think it might be time for you to give a little tour to show what's up there for people like Johann. Some small group of people who are also active in the area to help spread the word when necessary. You said you saw Hubbard up there, so it would seem that now might be the time to help protect the place. A preemptive strike if you will to address your concerns. It's your call though. But you might want to consider you weren't the first to explore that area and will not be the last.
Either way Sanstone, looking forward to climbing with you some day soon.
Chris
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Mar 19, 2015 - 08:14am PT
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Thanks for the map Johannsolo!! I was about 50 ft from the thing when I turned around. This Sunday for sure.
Speaking of Sunday, don't forget the Woodson Cleanup from 8am to noon March 22nd. The Mt. Woodson Trail Clean up is being sponsered by ACSD and The Wall Climbing Gym and it will be necessary to bring gloves, trashbags, hat, water, sunscreen and snacks. Might want to bring your pooper scooper too. Apparently there will be swag from the sponsors at the end and will be climbing until sunset! Hmmmm, read the popular spots will be crowded, BUT it's for a good cause.
Chris
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Sanstone
climber
San Diego
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Mar 19, 2015 - 08:37am PT
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Again I want to thank you for your honesty.I'm sure you are a nice guy. That being said, "Sustainability" are you f*#king kidding me? You come down here, bolt 3 different climbs in a day, ruining some of the coolest colored rock on the hill and that's sustainable. I guess that's how they view things in "Soul" California. Doesn't seem very soul to me. Seems more like the "Gold Rush" mentality I described earlier. It also doesn't appear that your ability to recognize the best lines on the rock are very good either. Had you taken time to CLIMB instead of BOLT, you would have realized that.
For that matter, how many days have you spent climbing there before you deemed it necessary to bolt anything.
You should feel good (not) about the renaming of the arete though. Previously it was simply called the Chronicles Arete. Now, with the inspiration of RG, will change to "The Flakes of Wrath".
Again, thanks for your honesty. I hope you learned a lesson about "Showing up to a new area, (new to you) prying off flakes and damaging an existing solo circuit", like I said in my original post. The first post I've done in about five years.
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Sanstone
climber
San Diego
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Mar 19, 2015 - 08:54am PT
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skcreidc and RG. I've never claimed to be the first, and not trying to be the last to climb at the Boulders aka Cerro Terre. Nor do I view myself as the second coming of Christ. As I said in my previous post, I'm happy to show the area to "Responsible" people. You seem like one of those people. It would be my pleasure to show you around the hill as we discussed.
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Mar 19, 2015 - 12:03pm PT
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I just want to chime in here because i challenged sanstone's knowledge and background regarding the woodson area, and need to follow up on that. I got a call from 'sanstone' the other night, and he wanted to meet and have a beer and talk all this stuff over. Right then i knew he was a stand up guy, because face to face is how real people take care of business.
So we met at a place in poway and i bought him a beer. He was understandably unhappy with my belittling (my word) comments, but he quickly vented his displeasure and i apologized for being a judgemental twit, then we got to talking shop.
Over the course of an hour of enjoyable, animated and sometimes loud conversation, we found that we are very much alike in ethics, experience and time spent in the brush exploring and developing. Sanstone has extensive experience on woodson dating back to the early 80s. I can vouch that he is the real deal, and that he is one of the good guys. His info is firsthand and if anyone knows what is currently going on up on the hill, he does.
The main thing that he and i share is a love of woodson and a determination to keep sleazy and destructive practices from taking root on the hill. Im talking about chipping, gluing, excessive defoliation, rap bolting, over bolting and disrespect for other climbers and the environment. I fully endorse and support his efforts and plan on many trips with him in that capacity.
There are unscrupulous and self interested parties causing irreversible damage on and around woodson, and they will be stopped by whatever means necessary, and held accountable for their actions. Its a cancer and will only get worse. More to come on this.
Johannsolo, when sanstone and i talked about the broken flakes and he told me he thought you might have done it, I replied that if you did it that you would cop to it and talk about it because thats how you are, and thats what you did. Hats off to honesty and good character!
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Mar 19, 2015 - 12:25pm PT
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Sanstone. I was wrong to question you, because it was I who didnt know what they are talking about. Ya i fell into the old school, know it all geezer mentality, and i thank you for calling me on it, because thats not what i want to be.
Its weird to have age deterioriate your abilities, your ego takes a hit. In 1990 I had the knowledge. In 2015 i am not especially relevant, and i didnt want to admit that to myself. Even geezers need to keep learning and growing, and i humbly beg your forgiveness for talking out my ass.
Call me when youre ready to get out there man, im ready.
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darkmagus
Mountain climber
San Diego, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 19, 2015 - 01:36pm PT
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Lots of good sh*t in this thread. Honesty levels are running high.
I think that nearly all of us here at ST are cut from similar cloth and that we share roughly the same values and aesthetic sense regarding Woodson and climbing in general. We really need to be hanging out, climbing with each other, sharing stories/beta/wisdom, because we're of the same ilk: journeymen, masters, explorers, adventurers, risk takers, nature enthusiasts, etc...
Just for a bit of perspective: do we all acknowledge that "The Fake Eppulator" aka "The Cave Problem" is THE most popular boulder problem on the hill? It's the potato chip rock for boulderers. Check this rant out:
The contemporary boulderer knows that there's nothing good at Woodson except "The Cave Problem" (yeah, I know, they actually don't realize that there's something else called "The Cave"). After you do that, the place is considered climbed out. Maybe if you're feeling really adventurous you'll go find "Nightmare on Elm Street" (V7/5.13, am I right guyz?). But that is IT! I'm only saying this to help people understand that climbers today don't really care about highball slabs/faces and they definitely ain't climbing cracks, let alone harder ones. They like short "thuggish" overhangs with lots of space for pads and hangin' out. So if you know of any of those, I'd keep them on lockdown. Because if word gets out that there's a "new V10" (old-school woodson .12-), then the hordes of pad people will show up. And it's not so much the hordes themselves that are a problem, but the utter lack of outdoor experience that will have them f*cking the place up. Sh#t, one of them might even bring a hammer if the "proj" won't go.
I'm inclined to say that any bolts installed by "JW Squared" aren't going to be superfluous. Perhaps not as minimalist as others would like, but yeah, broken-ass old bolts kill people. Just my two cents!
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Mar 20, 2015 - 02:44am PT
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There are a lot of candidates for most popular problem on the hill. Are you sure that the cave and fake eppulator are the same thing?
I love how the gentleman who wrote the excellent post/rant quoted above enlightens us as to what climbers are looking for today. I think the best places to look for the type of thuggish climbs he is seeking would be climbing gyms. And what a bummer to find out that the slabs and cracks ive been climbing all these years are nothing but choss. Dammit, another bad life choice.
If the grainy little sideshow called "nightmare on elm street" is 5.13 then we are going to have to up-rate a bunch of other stuff.
I wonder what he means by "climbed out"? That all the routes have been climbed? Well they wouldnt be a route if they havent been climbed. Maybe he means hes got the only 2 problems on the hill wired and is tired of them? Hard to say. Climbed out could mean anything from "my shoes wont stick" to "ive done everything i can on the road and am afraid of bushes".
I have to thank this guy for raising the bar so high that i hardly look like an ass now.
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