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adrian korosec
climber
Tucson
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Oct 23, 2013 - 07:19pm PT
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The tree Joe Kinder cut down was a national treasure. There should be jail time and big fines.
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squishy
Mountain climber
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Oct 23, 2013 - 07:28pm PT
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I just had such a great conversation with the access fund, some of the most constructive stuff I have heard on any subject. I will admit it helped me care about things which were beyond my own selfish anger.
The access fund is obviously disappointed by the cutting down of the tree and feel it's a very important issue. They agree with everyone that cutting the tree down was wrong, no excuses.
They are not ready to release any kind of public statement, they do not have any plans to do so in the near future. But I am willing to bet they will address it later depending on how it all plays out. I think they are best positioned within this community to address these kinds of issues and help spur change.
From what I can gather, this incident has the potential to become a historic event, mainly for the millennial generation. Whether or not Joe understands the magnitude of that statement, I do not know, but I think we'll find out.
Most people don't think so, and I have placed myself in that camp. But, I don't know him, only the image and character he plays. Till this sentence, I have been calling for his grindstone and for the community to shun him. I still don't think he should be sponsored by greedy companies, they have shown through their responses that stewardship is not as important as making money. BUT, I do think this is an opportunity for Joe to play a big role in climbing's future historiography. Based on what I have seen of him he's gonna need a lot of help and mentoring and I hope he reaches out to the right people. I won't ask for his head or expulsion, I'd ask the community to help him, whoever is best equipped and closest.
In order to change the culture of this newer generation of climbers he will need to capitalize on this event and use it to address the real problem. He has obviously learned (the hard way) what the problem is (utter ignorance of environmental ethics in climbing). Now we need to see if he has the maturity to endure a good bashing from dickheads like me, while turning around and addressing the problem in a positive way. Time to suck it up and drive on like you got a pair.
Joe,
If you step up and play this right, you will have my forgiveness and my gratitude (it's not worth anything by the way, I can only climb 5.8). Make this about the greater good and stop being so selfish (leave out what you think, what you did, and don't make excuses, stand tall by your mistakes, own them). The problem is a culture that doesn't respect it roots and I am not some old timer "has been" complaining from my deathbed, I am genX. Read the old climbing books, understand the history of environmental ethics in climbing, it's actually fascinating. Identify knowledge gaps within your corner of this community and go out there and fill them. You speak their language and you can translate the past into the future. You gotta shoot the moon Joe, but do you have the cards?
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Oct 23, 2013 - 07:44pm PT
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Man you People up on you mighty high horses are fckin pathetic. Suppose you self richous hippys have never sat arround a campfire playing rosewood and mahogony guitars to the beat of hand drums made of koko bolo and exotic endangered brazilian wood..
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Oct 23, 2013 - 08:17pm PT
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And NO I do Not think he should have cut the tree down but I do think that most of the folks on this thread are pileing on the hate without even realizeing that they are just going allong with the crowd..
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squishy
Mountain climber
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Oct 23, 2013 - 08:25pm PT
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Then you don't understand the importance of environmental ethics in California climbing. Lets just call it ignorance and move on..
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Oct 23, 2013 - 08:25pm PT
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"most of the folks on this thread are pileing on the hate without even realizeing that they are just going allong with the crowd.. "
That's something Kinder should have considered before he cut down a National Treasure.
What did he expect? A pat on the back?
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James
climber
My twin brother's laundry room
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Oct 23, 2013 - 08:59pm PT
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Why does everyone hate on the lumberjack? He gave you armchair climbers something to bitch about.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Oct 23, 2013 - 09:10pm PT
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^^^^
Jealous of the attention he's not getting.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Oct 23, 2013 - 09:10pm PT
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Holy sh#t, ANOTHER thread on this?
The Supertopo Flame keeps a-burnin'....
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squishy
Mountain climber
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Oct 23, 2013 - 09:14pm PT
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did you really just notice this thread gdavis?
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Oct 23, 2013 - 09:34pm PT
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Hey Joe, do those look like Junipers? I'm just guessing here but I bet many species of tree can get stunted and appear young while still being very old.
Hilarious!
The reason I keep beating the horse is because this is not something I feel should be swept under the rug and forgotten.
Hell, the "Climbing Down" thread went for what, 2,000+ posts? That route can be chopped and the holes filled. There is no restoring of those trees.
From what I can gather on the web, Joe is 29. Hardly young in my book, so I'm not in the camp to write it off as youthful stupidity. I don't hate Joe, it's not worth the emotion and I don't know him. I hate what he did.
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Leggs
Sport climber
Tucson, AZ
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Oct 23, 2013 - 09:36pm PT
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holy sh#t balls...
someone needs to start a boob thread.
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The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
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Oct 23, 2013 - 09:40pm PT
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Oct 23, 2013 - 09:53pm PT
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Leggs
Sport climber
Tucson, AZ
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Oct 23, 2013 - 10:06pm PT
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Hahahhahhahahaa! Larry! You never let me down!
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KP Ariza
climber
SCC
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Oct 23, 2013 - 10:27pm PT
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Squish, your first post today was at 10:46 and you're still at it. Get a life man.
Maybe you outta spend some time squishing the festering boils developing on your backside from sitting in a chair all day hen pecking your keyboard.
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ChizzDizzle
Trad climber
Rocklin,CA
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Oct 24, 2013 - 12:13am PT
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Poor Little Joey made NPR. My wife was listening earlier today and told me they have a story about it. Any publicity is good publicity right?
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KP Ariza
climber
SCC
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Oct 24, 2013 - 12:21am PT
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Squishy, you are posting teenage porn now huh? Pure class. You're just dying for attention aren't you.
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KP Ariza
climber
SCC
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Oct 24, 2013 - 12:30am PT
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Sqiushy, way to delete the graphic picture of the teenage girl you just posted. I took a screen shot of the entire post, username (that would be you) and all just in case you wanted me to re-post it later for you. It took all of two minutes for you to come to your senses and get rid of it huh?. Momentary lapse of judgement maybe? It happens. So, how long should the people of this forum crucify you now for being a pervert?
Now, if you'd just beat it all together. You ain't helping any causes.
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harryhotdog
Social climber
north vancouver, B.C.
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Oct 24, 2013 - 01:23am PT
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Man you People up on you mighty high horses are fckin pathetic. Suppose you self richous hippys have never sat arround a campfire playing rosewood and mahogony guitars to the beat of hand drums made of koko bolo and exotic endangered brazilian wood..
Tradmanclimbs why don't you go play your mahogany guitar by the fireside and burn your Maple, Oak, Beech, Ash, Iron wood, white and yellow birch and cherry as you clearly don't get it.
I myself have been in arboriculture for 22 years and in that time I have removed many, many trees. Most were dead,in decline or a hazard with a target. I also burn firewood among other things but I still have the ability to see that some trees and tree species are far more valuable than others based on many criteria. It is sad that you can't grasp this.
You also mentioned your neighbour who burns juniper in New Mexico as if all junipers are the same. The junipers in the Pinyon juniper woodland of New Mexico consist of three other species of juniper all very common and spread across many states in the west. Juniperus occidentalis var. australis is neither common or widespread as it only grows in the mountain areas of California and NW Nevada.
Saying that we are all a bunch of hippie tree huggers because we feel strongly about this is quite simply a joke as I'm sure ST users are a very diverse group and come from all kinds of backgrounds and environments.
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