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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Oh the HORROR.
Lions and tigers and belayers oh my.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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At this point, most of the comments by ES residents appear to be more fear related than anything else.
Nah, they'd be against anyone who bought that building, no matter what they wanted to do with it. They're just trying to keep the outsiders out.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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They're just trying to keep the outsiders out. Conveniently adding that they were once outsiders as well.
Welcome to Nimby Springs the least friendly place in America.
Come on down to Pitbull's tire repair shop we'll drop a rock on you..
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Janet Robinson
climber
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Dear Mark Kroese, and AAC Board of Directors,
I have sent a few emails to you and have not received a reply.
I am both a climber and resident of Eldorado Springs.
For many, many years climbers and residents have coexisted, often sharing the same concerns, we stood shoulder to shoulder to prevent a quarry also to fight against TV towers on Eldorado Mountain.
Both groups are passionate about Eldorado and the amazing canyon, it's where we scatter ashes of our gone too soon friends, it's where we gather to regain our sanity in this world.
I think you know it's a very special place.
Living in Eldorado is not for everyone, it has it's challenges but as a community of 208 residents with an increasing number of children we make it work and we and our children thrive here.
We look out for one another, help each other in times of need and band together when attacked, just as the climbing community would.
I feel privileged to be part of both communities and have made many life long friends.
Unfortunately ever since the AAC came into town and announced the plan for a 22 bed hostel things have become sour.
It happened slowly, a few rumblings, a petition, then the letter from Penn Burris, which was a turning point in the community's feelings about the AAC and the hostel.
Justified or not the residents felt attacked by the AAC, it was truly a game changer, a line in the sand.
Inevitably word spread and a comments from both side were posted on Super Topo. Residents were called jackasses and other names I will not print.
Fortunately most residents who posted were civil and posted their full names.
If you know anything about the folks in Eldo you will know that the anonymous Pit Bull does not represent our conduct or our way of communicating.
The lack of any communication from the AAC is incredibly disappointing.
The AAC needs to take full responsibility for this new divide, this new animosity.
We have no idea when or if it will ever resolve but damage has been done.
I has truly been upsetting to witness these wounds becoming deeper with no accountability from the AAC.
This conflict has made the Eldorado Springs residents stronger and more cohesive, a natural response when one feels attacked, just as the climbers also feel attacked.
I encourage you to update the residents, concerned climbers and AAC members before the two communities become even more divided.
It did not need to be dealt with in this manner.
The lack of transparency and avoidance of questions is concerning and very dissappointing.
Sincerely
Janet Robinson. Eldorado springs.
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Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
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^^^Find out who pitbull is, out him/her and/or tell him/her to sh#t his mouth. He/she is certainly not doing Eldo residents and favors with threats and vitriol.
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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remember climbing parasites your cars will be towed if even an inch on local property. Your gear will get trashed or ruined if left outside. You will be greeted with nothing but hostility from locals and the cops will be called everytime one of your entitled members does anything that could be in violation of any law.
pitbull
Mountain climber
Co, NY, WV
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Actually Janet it was the irrational knee jerk reaction of a handfull of uninformed residents that created this conflict not the AAC. It doesn't seem as if you protesters have even let the process unfold before rallying the mob. Give the AAC a chance to present a case before you attack them with such duplicity. I am glad at least that you are distancing your self from the rabid Pitbull. This thread is getting traction and wings. It is being read around the country and probably by now around the world. Do you really want Eldorado Springs to get such an unfriendly rap just to keep the imaginary unwashed masses out.
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ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
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pitbull = olivekinsey3@gmail.com
See post 150 or so for the details on this.
Since everyone else has decided to voice there opinion, I'll give mine too. The site and the building could be renovated to accommodate the parking and the use proposed by the AAC. A good architect could make this happen. It might not be cheap, but it is doable. The vast majority of the concerns from the homeowners are NIMBY, and the few real issues can be addressed.
This may or may not be the best place for the hostel, but nothing put forth by the homeowners is substantial enough to stop the AAC from exploring utilizing this location.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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It seems that those trying to claim to be the voice of all ES residents don't even know how many residents are in ES.
Eldorado Springs, Colorado
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Eldorado Springs, Colorado
— CDP —
Location in Boulder County and the state of Colorado
Coordinates: 39°56′27″N 105°15′21″WCoordinates: 39°56′27″N 105°15′21″W
Country United States
State Colorado
County Boulder[1]
Area
• Total 2.4 sq mi (6.2 km2)
• Land 2.4 sq mi (6.2 km2)
• Water 0 sq mi (0 km2)
Elevation[1] 5,732 ft (1,747 m)
Population (2010)
• Total 585
• Density 232.1/sq mi (89.8/km2)
Time zone MST (UTC-7)
• Summer (DST) MDT (UTC-6)
ZIP code[2] 80025
Area code(s) 303
FIPS code 08-23630
GNIS feature ID 0181177
Eldorado Springs is a census-designated place (CDP) in Boulder County, Colorado, United States. The population was 585 at the 2010 census.[3] [4] The Eldorado Springs Post Office has the ZIP Code 80025.[2]
In 1910, Eldorado Springs was a resort community, known for its Big Radium Pool, then the largest swimming pool in the United States. The pool, along with several other smaller ones, was known as "Coney Island of the West."[5]
The nearby Eldorado Canyon State Park is famous for its classic North-American climbing routes.
Contents [hide]
1 Geography
2 Demographics
3 Notable residents
4 See also
5 References
6 External links
Geography[edit]
Eldorado Springs is located at 39°56′27″N 105°15′21″W (39.940786, -105.255930)[6].
According to the United States Census Bureau, the CDP has a total area of 2.4 square miles (6.2 km2), all of it land. To the southwest is Eldorado Mountain.
Demographics[edit]
As of the census[4] of 2000, there were 557 people, 275 households, and 133 families residing in the CDP. The population density was 232.1 people per square mile (89.6/km²). There were 295 housing units at an average density of 122.9 per square mile (47.5/km²). The racial makeup of the CDP was 94.61% White, 0.72% African American, 0.18% Native American, 1.80% Asian, 0.90% from other races, and 1.80% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 2.87% of the population.
There were 275 households out of which 20.0% had children under the age of 18 living with them, 39.3% were married couples living together, 5.5% had a female householder with no husband present, and 51.6% were non-families. 38.5% of all households were made up of individuals and 2.9% had someone living alone who was 65 years of age or older. The average household size was 2.03 and the average family size was 2.74.
In the CDP the population was spread out with 17.2% under the age of 18, 5.6% from 18 to 24, 35.5% from 25 to 44, 33.8% from 45 to 64, and 7.9% who were 65 years of age or older. The median age was 42 years. For every 100 females there were 108.6 males. For every 100 females age 18 and over, there were 110.5 males.
The median income for a household in the CDP was $48,875, and the median income for a family was $96,823. Males had a median income of $61,625 versus $26,750 for females. The per capita income for the CDP was $42,908. About 15.4% of families and 11.9% of the population were below the poverty line, including 7.2% of those under age 18 and none of those age 65 or over.
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goatboy smellz
climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze
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Thanks Janet.
It sounds like the miscommunication started early and has snowballed out of control,
to the point it may be a losing battle to put the hostel there.
Would like to hear more from the AAC on why other options are not
being pursued when there is so much resistance on the current property.
And why dissent emails are being ignored while my initial email of support
was responded to within 12 hours.
Time to own up to this fallout AAC. Silence is not helping the cause.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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band together when attacked
why is the AAC proposal viewed as an attack?
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Because they are being reactionary.
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goatboy smellz
climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze
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Everybody is being reactionary.
When communication is lacking the other party feels their concerns are not worthy of discussion so the dismissive attitude feels like an objection of their opinions or an attack on their objectives and concerns.
Haven't you guys ever argued with a chick before?
This is first round stuff.
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Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
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The ACC hostel and the Eldo resident response is the true definition of a FIRST WORLD PROBLEM
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Goatboy they didn't even give the AAC the opportunity to work up and present a plan before reacting to rumor and speculation. Trying to hold the AAC accountable for their impatience is a naively stupid argument. You have been around the business, do you apply for a building permit before you have plans drawn up?
I know if I were in a position to purchase and redevelop that property I wouldn't disclose a thing til all my ducks were in a row. The AAC has a commendable record of getting their ducks in a row. So why don't yall quit quacking off and have a little patience. The AAC and current property owner signed a contract to purchase the parcel seven months ago and nothing has happened yet. No demoing, no remodeling, no evictions. They sure don't seem like they are steamrolling anyone. To the contrary the seem to be taking time to look at the situation from multiple angles including the resident's points of view. Why should they be forced to respond before they have finished what ever feasibility studies they deem necessary? You wouldn't dream of demanding that of any other purchaser of private property and you damn well wouldn't accept it if you were the buyer.
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goatboy smellz
climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze
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Back off your soapbox for once Philo, after exchanging several emails from friends in ES, Boulder County, and the AAC, the Club dropped the ball on this one. I have over two decades of building homes, dealing with codes and financing properties in this town.
This deal went downhill when the Club started to ignore the residents. Maybe the ACC can pull it off but the money involved to bring in the lawyers seems absurd.
Personally I think the Club can get more bang for their buck by buying one of the old frat houses on University Hill. Access to the Flatirons, Eldo. Boulder Canyon, the Fox, Liquor Mart, downtown all within 15-20 minutes.
Remember the International Hostel? Let's bring that back before clownshoe half stepping on the residents of Eldorado and their concerns despite how NIMBY they come across here.
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wbw
Trad climber
'cross the great divide
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Why should they be forced to respond before they have finished what ever feasibility studies they deem necessary? You wouldn't dream of demanding that of any other purchaser of private property and you damn well wouldn't accept it if you were the buyer.
Because the AAC is a self-defined non-profit group, and to that end there is a reasonable expectation of more transparency than one might have of an average buyer. When any non-profit lacks transparency, or appears to, people cry foul much faster than they would in regards to an individual, or for that matter a different type of organization.
Also, this boils down to an issue of trust, and unfortunately L. Penn may have burned that bridge.
Phil, I believe that all of the hysterics and name-calling are counterproductive to both sides. The post by Christian is very balanced and thought out. So too those by Janet, who is a very intelligent and calm person. I would suggest focusing on those points of view.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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what a mess....
the Eldorado Springs residents just don't want the AAC hostel there, no matter what the plan... they fear the people who might stay at the hostel, they are unhappy about the existing parking mess and they worry about the possible loss of property values. They would also like to make their town in their image of what it should/could be, which does not include outsiders.
The AAC it trying to be two things at once, a landlord of a hostel in a residential community and a "good friend" to all, and bungled that balancing act by reacting emotionally to the realization that the Eldo Springs community just doesn't want the hostel in their town, no matter what. We all know it is hard to mix business and friendship, and the sense of betrayal, on both the AACs side and the Eldo Springs side was inevitable.
Then to post it on the SuperTopoForum is like throwing gasoline on a fire...
...and it leaves a lasting impression too.
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steve shea
climber
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It is a mess. And I have an impression of the people of Eldorado who are afraid, uniformed and do not want change. The AAC has suffered some loss of goodwill. The hard part for me is seeing the climbing heritage dismissed as some sort of Taliban plot.
Fortunately I remember Eldo and old man Fowler and the many many great days there. Late 60's to the mid 70's. On and off the rock. Climbing was our thing then and seemed to be embraced. Much different now, the residents anyway. The 'not in my backyard' crew will suffer in the end. Higher taxes, the feel of a gated community where visitors are only 'allowed' in and the reputation that that engenders.
I'm not suggesting the AAC give up. But they might want screw the Boulder plan and look at Estes and RMNP. There is better climbing and more of it and they might be embraced for many reasons.
Ask not what you can do for the AAC, but what the AAC can do for you. You Eldo residents may be surprised.
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