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Stewart Johnson
climber
lake forest
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Thanks for your perspectives Orle and Jan TashiDelek.
Don't forget the Kangschung face where Sherpas don't go
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Listen, I've been coming here 21 years. I built with my own money a school for 396 Sherpa children. I paid for the education of three different Sherpa kids.
I brought my own helicopter here to do rescues for free for all Sherpas. The foreigners have to pay. So I am the last person who should be accused of not having a love for Sherpas.
I see!
So what he is saying is that he has paid them off, so he should be able to do whatever he wants.
By the way, any of you purchased a helicopter recently?
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Being a Sherpa is probably safer than working in a meat packing plant in Alabama
Which says to me that you know nothing about either. Not to mention that if a person is injured in Alabama, they are covered by Work Comp. The Sherpa is SOL.
but then, since you haven't actually read any of the accounts, and are only posting on the basis of stereotypes and bias, why not?
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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I need a Russ summary....
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Again, appreciation for your staying on with this, Jan...your commentary has conferred a great measure of scrutiny and understanding to the issue...
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Denis Urubko Wrote about it....
http://urubko.blogspot.com/2013/05/khumbu-wars.html
From the several years spent on expeditions, I have taken out firm belief what to solve any conflict on a route by means of force - is useless. Finally the innuendo will pour out in problems for both all) parties. To understand, who and as beginnings the first, who is «more to the right» and who was «guilty» will not turn out.
On the other hand, sherpas as I saw, often lose self-control, and the first rush in fight, begin aggression, catch at the weapon. So occurred IN ALL cases when I became the witness or the participant of oppositions between Nepaleses and persons of other nationalities.
Golden understanding of situation right here
All the rest is impregnated by money. About money as it is paradoxical will sound, group Moro-Steck-Griffit had been broken. Because behind the back of that sirdar, that has begun the conflict, there were uncountable dollars of commercial groups of clients, for which the line of cords was fixing. It (together with the aforesaid) has given the chance to develop the conflict. And in that plane, whence to pull out a situation became impossible. Hundreds pseudo-climbers which have paid money for road to top of the Everest, stood up for in one hundred sherpas, got a false idea offended.
It is a stick about two ends. In consciousness sherpas for a long time already there is a stereotype what exactly they and are the present climbers. On which favour crowds of the collectors, ready to pay money for possibility to become the first «…-ner», «the person with …», «the person without …» «…-sual», «… times in … days» depend. Yes let them! But while so occurs, all these pseudo-heroes should be in slavery at masters of the situation, sherpas. And to suffer any spittles and smiles behind the back. Thus, that in the person will smile so widely, the bank account of the client how much allows. Instead of will pay this - please! Always there will be another, ready to fork up.
And in two days, approaching to Base camp, near one of tents I have met two sherpas which were selflessly wetted, having stuck out genitalsin in front of group the foreigners in five meters from, by all kind showing winners. A pier, also what you to us can do?! One word - pigs.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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I would be the first to applaud what Moro has done for Sherpas and it isn't just a matter of money. Getting anything done in Nepal involves lots of time and effort because of maddening bureaucratic and logistical hassles. In the end, the Sherpa people will remember this about him and say, he's emotional, he curses, but he's got a big heart, and most of them will be very sorry this happened to him.
One of the problems I can see on Everest is the young age of the Sherpa guys involved. In a village situation, the elders step into a fight to mediate. This is after the women have separated the antagonists. Normally Sherpas get confrontational only when they've been drinking and mostly this consists of shouting threats at each other while women hang on their arms and beg them to desist. They could of course break free if they wanted to. Fortunately, since there were no elders present, Melissa Arnot was there to play that role on Everest.
I'm sure the next step is more regulations about the south face as the guide agencies and Sherpas cooperate to put pressure on the Nepalese government. Eventually though, the guide agencies themselves will be under pressure from the Sherpas to pay more and raise comfort levels. The hapless Nepalese government will be in the middle, but eventually come down on the side of the Sherpas. That however, is years away. One thing that will aid this process however, is the coming shortage of Sherpas as more and more get educated and do other work. Already there are a few other ethnic groups who work on the mountains but they do not have the unique physiology of the Sherpas or their experience of altitude and cold. Given the amount of money involved, they will try however, and we can expect many more indigenous fatalities in the process.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Jan rules. She is so smart, worldly and informed that it is a joy to read her words. Rich Goldstone, Clint Cummings and a few others have the same thing going.
Thanks Jan!
BTW, one of the big issues is that nearly everyone feels like sh#t once they get above 22,000-23,000'. Coughing, wheezing, sucking O2, lethargigic, not hungry, etc etc. So folks are already on edge cause their bodies are telling their minds to piss off. This is why so many of those other Everest and K2 expeditions have otherwise calm, friendly, fun loving white dudes trying to whack each other in the heads with ice axes. Read some of the literature or talk to anyone who's ever been on an expedition. Same-same, but ugly!
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Camp 2 and the Lhotse Face above...
Alan Arnett
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Stewart Johnson
climber
lake forest
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Calling the Tibetans bluff after they stole my socks
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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It always helps to be in the position of moral authority.
Either you're very tall or those Tibetans have very stunted growth.
And out of curiosity, did you ever get your socks back?
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Stewart Johnson
climber
lake forest
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Jan im only a six footer. so yes Tibetians are short in Kharta.
and since i had ten pairs of socks and they had none i ended up bartering for yak bells etc. cheers and thanks for your knowledge!
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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I thought Stewart, since you mentioned the Kangshung Face previously, that the theft probably happened in Kharta. They're kind of known for that even among Sherpas. I'll bet their average height has declined since 1959 because of lowered nutrition when the border was sealed and the major trade route from Nepal was destroyed.
It's interesting how things go in cycles. Isolated communities when first opened up often have a once- in- a- lifetime, grab- what- you- can- attitude. Later, they realize there's more to come and more to be made by accommodating. Still later, it seems from the recent Everest episode, a new phase is entered when they try to regain control and a still bigger portion of the wealth.
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crankster
Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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Why is it so hard for some of you to admit the Sherpa's might have really screwed up? They are human beings, not mythical creatures.
Jan has made her decision, regardless of the facts.
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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I have to kind of agree with Crankster on this one. Sure, there are cultural difference between the sherpas and westerners, but regardless of what happened, violence is not the answer. The sherpas screwed up by resorting to violence. That's the bottom line. You can make up all the excuses you want, but that's it.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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I suggest your criticism of Jan is inapt, Crankster. Perhaps re-reading the thread will convey notions you overlooked or failed to light upon.
Jan expressed in the beginning that the assault by Sherpas was a huge mistake. Conveying insight into why they lost control is not advocating they were right in attacking the Europeans ...or proposing Sherpa own the moral high ground in every dispute with western climbers.
Jan's study and familiarity... of and with the Sherpa ...qualify her in reviewing the events and attaching cultural insight. Please don't intimate she is playing cozy with Sherpa offense at the expense of western "innocence"in this dispute.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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FISTICUFFS ON SUPERTOPO! Same as it ever was...
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Stewart Johnson
climber
lake forest
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Dealing with the cunnning Tibetians was good mental preparation for climbing the east face with four people.
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rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Jan, curious, what is your background? From reading your posts over the years I gather you live in Okinawan now, and lived in Nepal earlier? Just my guess. I'd like to know more. What do you do for a living in such exotic places?
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Bargainhunter
climber
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The Sherpas did screw up. Mob mentality trying to smash people's heads with rocks?!??!!...Just for climbing past them on the designated Sherpa line fixing day? Sounds like a petty, immature argument that escalated into inexcusable nearly fatal mob violence. Fortunately the woman was there to prevent the lynchings and murders of some fine alpinists.
Where were the sidars in controlling them? Any leader or member of a guided group there should have the backbone to stand up to this and demand to have every Shepra involved fired. Anyone clipping onto a fixed rope up there now directly plays a role in condoning that violence. But I doubt the Western guides and their clients are about to do what is morally right and leave the mountain in protest and shortchange their pocketbooks or their summit dreams of glory.
I wonder when the Nepalese government will nationalize the guiding on the peak and set their own terms?
What a stupid drama...I cannot believe so many people sign up on these guided tours to clip into a fixed rope and jumar up the mountain. Hanging out in basecamp while the sherpas unwind spool after spool of rope for you to jug? Sorry friends, but who is attracted to this type of mountain activity? Plenty of people with cash to spare evidently....pathetic.
I'm on Ueli side. Here's the link:
http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/climbing/mountaineering/everest-2013/Brawl-On-Everest-Ueli-Stecks-Story.html
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