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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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None of us know what the hell happened--those who pretend to are giant trolls or complete fools, I can't tell which.
+1 blah³
Since I can't just outright agree with you, I will say that I am able to tell a giant troll from a complete fool. Obviously, look just look it up in the (electronic) literature.
Giant Troll (armed)
Compleat Fool:
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pat
Trad climber
estes park
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Patrick-
I took it to mean factual as in a summation of the stated events of the case, not that each stated event was fact in and of itself. I liked it as such.
I believed this happened more or less as they told it, but recognize their story should not be taken as "fact" per se right now and there is a lot of missing information about how this all started. I accept the proposed back story as well of the villagers defending their land, and I feel sorry for them somewhat but I don't that is an excuse for what happened and the type of justice they elected to use.
I like Drewsky's assessment of the money situation. I would add that materialism goes both ways, both for supposedly wanting all of their stuff to be paid for, and for the villagers stealing from them, its a human trait not just confined to entitled Americans so basically everybody looses here when confronted with the materialistic litmus test.
I would not sit down at a bar with these three and make friends with them, but that is a separate issue from what happened. I had a similar reaction to reading their story that this couldn't be true. The first thing I asked was are there similar stories of this happening in this region? I have encountered several now.
I take issue with this idea that we are all a just bunch of xenophobes in the US for believing the story the way these three have told it, I think it is ridiculous to posit that those living in poverty in foreign lands are all peacful non-materialistic people incapable of organized violence. Violence exists now just as it did in the 16th century at home and abroad.
-Pat
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John M
climber
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Thank you Drewsky. I don't know who you are, but this is almost exactly what I was thinking but just didn't have the ability to express. So thank you for putting my thoughts into words and expressing it so well.
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John M
climber
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Patrick-
I took it to mean factual as in a summation of the stated events of the case, not that each stated event was fact in and of itself. I liked it as such.
This is how I interpreted his post.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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^^^^
Sort of like building a gondola through a public park, eh?
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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I like drewsy's summation of what's gone down on this thread.
But maybe drewsy was composing his post when this little bomb dropped:
It turns out the other side is that they were tresspassing, never asked permission. When villagers approached them to determine what was going on the Americans started the violence by pushing the villagers out of the way, almost ran over one, pepper sprayed them, then drove up a dead end road. Villagers places rocks across the road to stop their return. The Americans crashed over this barrier at high speed. They threw rocks at the truck, but the Americans didn't seem to clue in they should stop and behave properly in someone else's country. Larger boulders were placed on the road, the Americans approached this at high speed and at the last minute drove off the road and crashed causing injuries to the Americans. So now we have violence against the villagers, a car crash hence property damage and injured passengers. They were taken to the village, the National Police were called and they were asked to fill a report about what happened. The Americans claim they were “forced off the road” - untrue, they chose to drive off road. They claim injuries by the villagers, untrue, it was a car crash that did that. No guns were used, unlike the exaggerated story being told. They claim they were somhow intimidatated into signing a false report, when in fact the report was quite true, they crashed their truck and were injured.
expatperu
Of course, nothing is confirmed.
I've teeter totteder back and forth on this whole deal, not wanting to judge.
Dream trip, for sure, turned into a nightmare.
Their trip could've very easily turned nightmarish in Northern Baja where they camped. The horror stories from that region are very real.
And a little further south, in Baja Sur, where they were 100 miles of the highway on the backroad to Scorpion Bay, without any real knowledge of a desolate road.
Or ON THE BEACH at First Point at Scorps. Suprising a local didn't kick their asses, much less, a surfer.
On and on, all the way down through Mexico, Central America, and South America.
Even for seasoned Latin American roadtrippers, much less some kids residing in "lifestyle destination" towns, this is a trip where anything could happen at any time...and finally did.
I hope they heal up and find themselves safe back in Jackson or Moab soon.
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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Don't want to sound too repetitive but, but blah is right for once
None of us know what the hell happened--those who pretend to are giant trolls or complete fools, I can't tell which.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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I don't see what insight can be gained, however, by endlessly lambasting them on this forum
That is sort of funny (that somebody would come to the taco looking for insight rather than entertainment.)
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John M
climber
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That is sort of funny (that somebody would come to the taco looking for insight rather than entertainment.)
Is this insight, or entertainment.
Or perhaps both.
I tend to find both on the taco.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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I hope they heal up and find themselves safe back in Jackson or Moab soon. Don't forget Boulder!
But regarding this point:
I like drewsy's summation of what's gone down on this thread.
But maybe drewsy was composing his post when this little bomb dropped:
[villagers account . . .]
Don't see how that is a bombshell at all, just tends to confirm that the villagers are sticking to their story, which seems implausible (for instance, why would they have signed the account saying they were drinking and crashed their truck, even if it were somewhat true, but for duress? And does it really seem likely that they successfully made it as far as they had, even though they do seem somewhat clueless, by driving around drunk?).
But I don't want to retract from my no-one-knows-what-the-hell-happened stance, expressed by others and quoted with approval by my friend zBrown (friend at least until the the Trayvon Martin story heats up again, then we'll see!)
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
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Well, one thing... To use that fundraiser platform instead of simply setting up a direct PayPal(or heaven forbid going to a bank and setting up a trust) puts 2.5% of all donations into the pocket of the website.
So...$20,000 - the website gets $500.
Also, every donation includes a 2.5% credit card processing fee on top of their donation.
I know I have learned a little from this thread, if I were ever to be traveling in other countries, to do research and understand as clearly as I could, how to manage myself.
I will say that I have read some of the blog posts, and was pretty surprised to see an attitude sort of like "ewwww," even after having been supposedly immersed for several months. I guess a nice metal shell, e-lectronics and neon outerwear acts as a bit of shield from that immersive experience.
Nonetheless, I do wish them a full recovery, and also a quick fading of the 15 minutes fame.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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simply setting up a direct PayPal
They have had a donation link on their blogsite - it says "Donate: Buy us a taco or a tank!"
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
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Yes, I know about that one - I refer to this recent campaign.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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My point is, they had a system in place to accept funds (or a taco). That's been there and available to anyone who wants to use it. Noting it is not a value judgement. Heck, many people use these sorts of links. Why would pointing that out appear unfair?
There is simply no need for them to start any new links to donations. Nothing unfair in pointing that out.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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In all fairness, asking others for money because your trip went horribly wrong is absurd... especially if you are replacing iPhuns and sh#t.
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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As long as we're pointing things out, I'd like to ask who would you rather send money to, John Long or Los Tres Peruvian Amigo/Amigas? or our former President elect?
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Send
Trad climber
Central Sierra
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I wonder if the 'villagers' heard about the Newtown Conn. tragedy? And what they think of us?
Something like...."fancy clothes, electronics, money, look at what they eat and they shoot each other?"
They must be like WTF?
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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No worries. Like Blahblah said - none of us know what happened there. And really, it doesn't matter in some ways. They got whooped up on and that is a drag. Did they start it? Who knows. Were they purely innocent? Who knows. Were they purely guilty? Who knows.
I don't have a dog in the race, but as I noted above, the asking for money for luxury items turns me off. Maybe the fund was started without their knowledge. If so, that is uncool (and unethical imo) of someone to do that! If someone did that on my behalf, I would state that publicly and return that money ASAP.
That has not happened however. But they are not me and that's okay. That is the only part that turns me off about their behavior. They are not *victims* of un-asked-for-money falling into their lap (!!Someone else set up the fund, it's not our fault!!!). They cannot honestly say "we didn't ask for it so it's not our fault" "but hey let's finish our trip maybe because of it" at the same time imo.
Keep in mind, this is only my opinion which is worth nothing in the scheme of things.
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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And really, it doesn't matter in some ways.
Yeah, but in some ways it does. If someone is unfairly brutalized, then isn't it fair to ask for donatations?
And, if someone wasn't, then isn't it abominable to ask for them?
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slayton
Trad climber
Here and There
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^^^^^ Yup, Crimpie. In total agreement as far as the funds. They can certainly turn it down even if they didn't set up fundraising in the first place. Pretty lame if they're taking money to buy replacement luxuries, if that is happening. Not so lame if they use that money for medical or travel expenses back home, not to continue the trip. All my opinion, of course.
The thing that gets to me about so many posts and those posting in this thread is the vilifying of these three individuals, sometimes to the point of serious anger and borderline hate, all based on nothing more than the original statement and then the opinions of others. I don't care what skill those folks have with logic, how smart they are, or how keen their judgment. They're not clairvoyant, they weren't there, and so they don't really know what the hell happened. Certainly not well enough to pass some of the judgments that have been made.
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