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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jun 29, 2012 - 02:34pm PT
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[quote...I haven't seen anything resembling what you claim above. Basic high-deductible policies will not be banned by the law. In fact, one of the goals of the law is to allow more people to actually obtain such coverage....[/quote]
Dave,
From the Wiki page summarizing the bill:
Effective 8-12 "All new plans must cover certain preventive services such as mammograms and colonoscopies without charging a deductible, co-pay or coinsurance. Women's Preventive Services – including well-woman visits, support for breastfeeding equipment, contraception and domestic violence screening – will be covered without cost sharing."
Effective 1-14: "Set a maximum of $2,000 annual deductible for a plan covering a single individual."
Effective by 2018: "All existing health insurance plans must cover approved preventive care and checkups without co-payment."
This is not what I call basic high deductible coverage. It also does not align well with the statement "If you like the policy you have now, you'll be able to keep it."
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jun 29, 2012 - 02:45pm PT
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Effective 1-14: "Set a maximum of $2,000 annual deductible for a plan covering a single individual."
yep
that is the pretty typical high deductible plan that I happen to have
sounds appropriate, especially considering you have to come with some framework
all can be modified to conditions as time goes on
considering the nothingness of Republican's "plan", eight years under Bush
damn good start
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jun 29, 2012 - 02:49pm PT
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"You libs will rue the day ACA goes into effect."
And your pathetic Party will be the target of our ire. Again.
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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Jun 29, 2012 - 02:50pm PT
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Considering Fatrads poor prediction skillz, I'd say things are looking good.
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nature
climber
SoSlo, CO
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Jun 29, 2012 - 02:52pm PT
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monolith +1
bwaahahahahaaaa!
bombs of Syria!
bombs over Iran!
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jun 29, 2012 - 02:53pm PT
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Dumbass barfed out:
None of the schemes you dream up will ever get "great care" for the less prosperous.
expanding Medicaid and basic catastrophic coverage is a far cry from "great care'
you just never, ever, really know or understand what is going on, do you?
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jun 29, 2012 - 03:01pm PT
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Apogee,
You're forgetting how comprehensive my suggestions were for health care reform. They were far more than tort reform, although that is an essential element.
And I am not advocating a single-payer system. I am merely pointing out that even that system at least separates health care from employment.
Here is a post from 2009:
"Aug 11, 2009 - 09:27am PT
I find myself in the unusual position of agreeing with Norton on the administration's health care proposal. It purports to be an alternative to privately-funded health care coverage, and has the stated intention of poviding for those who currently have no coverage. It most certainly does not fit my criteria, at least, for single-payer health care or for socialized medicine, both of which I oppose.
That said, I still oppose the proposal because it fails to address what I see to be the underlying problems. Back at post 3122, before certain people decided that certain other people on this thread should not offer their opinions, I offered my solution. Rather that post a link, I'll simply copy a relevant part of it:
There are numerous problems with the current healthcare system that I believe government involvement could make better. Since the Dems on this thread are crying for a solution, let me offer these:
1. For coverage of uninsured patients, something in the nature of the VA would be a good option. Particularly as the population of veterans decreases as the generations subject to the draft die out, we should integrate that system into a general system available to those who want it -- but there should be some cost. Otherwise, there is no incentive to use it wisely.
2. There is no reason why health coverage should be dependent on employment. The tie between health care coverage and employment has three historic roots:
(a) Henry Ford wanted his workers to stay healthy, and thought it was worth his money to include it as a benefit;
(b) Health benefits did not count as wages or salaries in World War II. It was thus a way for businesses to obtain workers by raising their return from employment without running afoul of wage controls; and
(c) Health benefits paid by employers are not taxed to employees.
The disadvantage, of course, is that health benefits become an impediment to changing employment, and compound the economic difficulty of losing or leaving a job. I suggest that we eliminate the employee's tax break on employer-paid health care, and replace it with a deduction for medical expenses, including medical insurance -- without any requirement that these expenditures exceed a certain percentage of income. This will provide an incentive to have your own insurance, rather than be on the dole with my VA For All plan, above. In addition, it will provide some connection between the consumer of health care and the cost of same.
3. We should do something to restore health insurance to its role as insurance. It currently covers several things (birth and birth control, to cite two contradictory examples) that are not traditionally insurable risks. I rather suspect maintenance-type health care would be cheaper if we paid for it the way we pay for car repair.
4. We need tort reform that respects freedom of contract. A doctor should not feel compelled to provide the very best treatment if it costs 100 times as much as the next best treatment, and is .001% better. Virtually all health care recipients have sufficient intelligence to make those sorts of decisions themselves.
5. We should have used some of that pork-barrel money (disguised as "stimulus" money) to build and staff a lot of new med schools.
This is just an outline, but I think it's far better than giving the government control over 18% of American GDP.
OK. I've got my blindfold on, and they've given me my cigarette. Fire away!"
Apparently, they're still firing, so I must not be dead yet.
John
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Jun 29, 2012 - 03:03pm PT
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You libs will rue the day ACA goes into effect. Higher premiums, employers terminating plans, higher federal debt and less care for those that can afford it.
Republican translation: we're out of ideas and the sky is falling (again.)
Curt
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jun 29, 2012 - 03:07pm PT
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Fatty
Curt,
Romney may be proved correct over time. Did you read the article I just posted, employers will dump their plans and the vouchers will be in everyone's mailbox, BUSTING THE BUDGET.
The article is BS. The only employees that will qualify for vouchers will be low paid employees that are often already not covered.
John
There is ample empirical evidence that health care premiums for existing coverage already have risen. The people I know in the insurance industry uniformly say the major component in the rise are ACA provisions, but I don't think that is sufficient to convince doubters, who can always respond that this observation is merely a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.
The cause may be debatable, but the rising rates are fact.
Obviously the cost reducing element of 50 million more people in the system hasn't kicked in yet but the additional cost of covering preexisting conditions has set in. Plus the insurance companies are greedy which is why they are hainvg to send billions in rebates now, cause thank GOD the bill caps profits and overhead at 20% (compared to 3% for medicare)
Peace
Karl
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Gunkie
Trad climber
East Coast US
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Jun 29, 2012 - 03:08pm PT
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...and less care for those that can afford it.
Huh? Is this coming from a free market advocate? I strongly doubt there will be a services void for the premium markets.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jun 29, 2012 - 03:09pm PT
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Jeff proudly claimed:
Norton,
They can get basic care for free at county hospitals and clinics RIGHT NOW.
Contra Costa Health Services is a comprehensive county health system that meets the needs of county residents in a variety of ways.
Jeff, what you do not understand is that we have a NATIONAL problem, and right now every county, every municipality, is different in what "free care" they may or may NOT be willing to provide for those without insurance.
Do you not understand that the USA is bigger than little CC HS?
Clue: Jeff, you are really naive when you say services are provided "free"
Taxpayers, and also healthcare companies "pay" for that "free" care
You are relentlessly, stunningly, uninformed, misinformed, and just plain ignorant.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jun 29, 2012 - 03:12pm PT
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Norton,
They can get basic care for free at county hospitals and clinics RIGHT NOW.
Who pays for it? Why you think costs will go up when these uncovered costs are reduced by more people buying insurances?
Funny, you can see Fatty almost twisting on the spit being roasted by Obamacare
Relax buddy. It's not like we started another senseless war that gains us nothing and cost more than our national healthcare needs
Peace
Karl
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jun 29, 2012 - 03:28pm PT
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There may be some areas of the country that have less service than CC
Alabama?
Arkansas?
Georgia?
Kentucky?
Wyoming?
Louisiana?
stupid fuker
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jun 29, 2012 - 03:37pm PT
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"Relax buddy. It's not like we started another senseless war that gains us nothing and cost more than our national healthcare needs"
Nah, a pointless, senseless war is exactly what those guys would prefer to doing anything to address our domestic problems...
I thought true conservatism was about anti-imperialism, and stay-at-home?
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jun 29, 2012 - 03:54pm PT
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Those damn activist judges. Liberals, all of 'em !!!
That is, until they uphold Citizens United, then they are "patriots."
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jun 29, 2012 - 04:06pm PT
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Karl,
Demand will outstrip supply, basic economics, costs will go up.
TheTool
It's not like oil where we can't pump more than there is.
First, People who really need care, get it so the demand is already there, and those who avoid care due to finances just get sicker and eventually need more expensive care, so some of that will be eliminated
and second
We need a local economy. It's aint manufacturing. Train more doctors and nurses and medical aides. Good for economy, employment and society unlike the expensive killing and bombing which you never complain about
Peace
Karl
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FTOR
Sport climber
CA
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Jun 29, 2012 - 04:14pm PT
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healthcare is the new bubble. it's bankrupting our social institutions for the profits of a few 1%. look at the oakland skyline, the only new highrises going up are hospitals... this is what we need to fix. too bad aca falls far short of this.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jun 29, 2012 - 04:16pm PT
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too bad aca falls far short of this.
agreed
but it is much better than the absolute nothing that Republicans endorse
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FTOR
Sport climber
CA
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Jun 29, 2012 - 04:58pm PT
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hospitals=profit centers. where else is there a business model where they can pretty much charge you what ever they want, regardless of your ability to pay? why should a broken limb bankrupt you?
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Speigl
climber
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Jun 29, 2012 - 05:27pm PT
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I did some googling regarding High Deductible plans under ACA. Some might find this interesting.
Conservatives obviously don't like what they call "Obamacare" because they think it expands the role of government too much and spends too much money. But ironically, the Affordable Care Act (ACA) actually promotes -- though not explicitly -- something that has been a fundamental objective of conservatives in health care for years: high-deductible health plans with more "skin in the game." http://www.kff.org/pullingittogether/What-Conservatives-Won-In-Health-Reform.cfm
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