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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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Apr 14, 2012 - 09:52am PT
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B.K., where are you? My morning coffee isn't as tasty without reading your latest finely scripted.
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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Apr 14, 2012 - 09:55am PT
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That was fast.
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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Apr 14, 2012 - 10:15am PT
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Seymour and Capillano Watersheds. No, haven't seen any photos; where should I look?
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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Apr 14, 2012 - 11:09am PT
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Hmmmm., Extra Foods?
Seriously drifting here, some flack should be arriving shortly.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Apr 14, 2012 - 11:11am PT
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now where would you look for eggs..... in squamish?
Under the chickens?
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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Apr 14, 2012 - 11:29am PT
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Too old and worn out to solve these riddles. Not too old to ride a mountain bike with 29 inch wheels though. You have to try it.... it's incredable! Very similar to graduating from E.B.s to Fires.
Continental drift here, sorry.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Apr 14, 2012 - 11:45am PT
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Hamish- hint, the thread you've been neglecting for this one ;)
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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Apr 14, 2012 - 11:52am PT
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I finally found your pictures. Nice tree (log). Where was that? Emerald Estates? That's the reason I'm old and worn out... climbing trees like that with chainsaws like that one.
That ice climbing looks terrifying! So glad I was too scared to take up that game. You guys are nuts.
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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Apr 14, 2012 - 12:20pm PT
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That was my introduction to the sport. Way too scary for me!
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Apr 14, 2012 - 03:01pm PT
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Seems like you are figuring out photoshop with your other hand cosmic :)
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Apr 14, 2012 - 05:40pm PT
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I generally trust BC Parks, but it has limited resources, and the provincial government has proven all too ready to remove land from parks. The large deletions from Garibaldi and Strathcona Parks, and permitting heli-skiing in Garibaldi, speak for themselves. The decision a few years ago to not allow a transmission line through Pinecone-Burke Park was anomalous if not unique.
Government is always something of a black box in these situations, in terms of who told who to do what. Still, I remember the effort needed to get the Chief made a park. It took several years, reports on values and issues, innumerable meetings of a public planning team involving all stakeholders, and public meetings run by BC Parks. Likewise with the master plan. The current process seems to have been designed to (barely) meet the requirements of the Park Act and policy and the master plan. However, it's badly flawed, in that:
 It's nothing like as thorough as the process required to create the Park in the first place;
It doesn't seem to have considered key questions, such as whether land should be taken out of the Park at all, let alone in the present circumstances, or whether governments should in effect facilitate the circumvention of a conservation covenant;
It doesn't provide BC Parks with the resources to properly review the proposal (self-marked exams don't really count), in context of the master plan, and Parks' goals for the region;
It addresses the various issues piecemeal, without a larger perspective; and
It doesn't provide for inclusive public meetings, where BC Parks can present information on the proposal to all interested parties and obtain their feedback, in person or via internet.
The many private meetings in Squamish that the developer has had may not be infomercials or sales pitches, as some describe them, but neither are they independent or inclusive. The removal of land from Garibaldi Park in 1990/91, and adoption of a new master plan, involved numerous public meetings held by BC Parks.
It appars that the government created a 'minimal' process for examining the current proposal, and told BC Parks what to do. BC Parks has neither the resources nor capacity to do otherwise. If the discussion is kept small picture, the proposal is an easier sell. The "only a little bit pregnant" routine - only removing a narrow strip of land from the Park, only cutting down a few trees, only having minor effects on natural environment, only having minor (and negotiable) effects on the human environment, etc. Promises v performance isn't much to go on.
Ultimately, I suspect that if the proposal is approved, it will fail. The proponents - or whoever's behind them - will get the permits, build it, and sell it within a year or two, before the glow wears off. The market simply doesn't seem to be there, and apart from access to Shannon Falls/Highway 99 traffic, the location is marginal. Tourists wanting this sort of experience can get it at Grouse, with many more attractions, or at Whistler. Most tourists visiting Squamish are en route to Whistler, and why would they stop for a second-rate gondola when they can do the peak-peak one at Whistler? The result being that the public is left with a mess.
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bmacd
Trad climber
100% Canadian
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Apr 14, 2012 - 06:47pm PT
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The noise from the thing is really going to be a buzz kill for the campground, trailhead and bullethead climbing routes. Shift the whole sh#t show down to or past Shannon falls. The present location reveals that this is a scam being promoted by fools.
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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Apr 14, 2012 - 07:06pm PT
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O.K., back on topic. M.H., I know you got the degrees and I didn't, but what makes you so sure about everything in your last paragraph? Maybe it will work? Also, I don't think you'll hear the thing from the bulletheads campground. It's electric, not diesel.
Squamish, B.C., Recreation Capital of Canada. Feel free to stand on the side of hwy. 99 and look up at it all.
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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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Apr 14, 2012 - 07:36pm PT
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Three things:
1) Yes, I am opposed to commercial development of Class "A" parks.
2) Since the taxpayers are too spineless to support whistle blower legislation, senior (or for that matter, any level) government employees are understandably reluctant to destroy their careers by going toe-to-toe with the politicians over these issues.
3) This gondola (if approved) is either going to be either a success or a failure. If it fails, there is going to be a godawful mess up there. Should it succeed, it will do NOTHING to reduce congestion on the backside trail nor shall it reduce congestion on Highway 99 - not to mention a galaxy of other problems I outlined in earlier posts.
P. S.: I guess compromise only goes one way - I guess that's why nobody replied to my suggestion that this project gets moved to Britannia or somewhere else.
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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Apr 14, 2012 - 07:57pm PT
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I wasn't implying the gondola itself would ease the backside trail traffic. I'm referring to the "new" trail which would likely appear if there's a lift down. No lift, no new trail.
Like B.K. outlined last week, if it fails, someone will buy the whole lift and fly it out of there. You'll be left with a bunch of 3 x 3 concrete footings on the rocky outcrops. The easement will grow back in and we can all buy Anders beer. Not that bad.
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Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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Apr 14, 2012 - 08:00pm PT
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Stewart, I like the Britannia idea and wouldn't oppose a gondola there. My guess,and that's all it is, though, is that the land-ownership questions at B. are thorny and complex, so it's easier for the developers to just go to the government and get land out of the park.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Apr 14, 2012 - 08:15pm PT
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It seems likely that the developers did not more than briefly look at alternative locations. The gravel pit was the proposed site in 2004, and a site proposed in the 2009 Squamish Oceanfront Corp. study. Whatever happened with TLC and the developer, once they figured out a way around the intent of the conservation covenant, why would they look elsewhere?
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bmacd
Trad climber
100% Canadian
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Apr 14, 2012 - 08:27pm PT
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The cables and cars clatter like hell at towers Einstein diesel or electric makes no difference
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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Apr 14, 2012 - 09:23pm PT
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Have you seen where the first tower would go? It's way, way up there. You'll never hear a peep from that tower from the bulletheads. I imagine a brand new gondola base would be somewhat enclosed. Probably would've been louder in those years that Kiewet leased the yard. I don't remember hearing any moaning about that.
And the name's not Einstein, by the way, I'm just here to make sure people play fair. Although I'm sure half the continent thinks the tram will land on the summit of the Chief.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Apr 14, 2012 - 09:57pm PT
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More details. Although I'm skeptical that the provincial government would find the money to remove and clean the thing up if it goes broke - look what happened at Brohm Ridge.
Land Trust Alliance of British Columbia (LTABC) represents 32 land trust members across the province. ( http://ltabc.ca/); BC land trusts, with the help of generous donors and willing land owners [and governments], have now protected well over one million acres of significant land.
The full list, and map, is at http://registry.ltabc.ca/ One of the LTA's members is TLC. Considering the importance of effective conservation covenants and reliable government partners to land trusts, they must be watching this situation closely. See http://ltabc.ca/2011-11-10-09-15-27/ltabc-publications?start=8, and click on "covenants", for more.
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