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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Sep 23, 2011 - 03:30pm PT
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Hand the top comp kid the same gear as the FA, stick him at the base of Twilight Zone and tell 'em to do it like Chuck did it.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Sep 23, 2011 - 03:50pm PT
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I see a lot more people leading harder trad now than I did 30 years ago. Most of the same folks that lead hard back then still climb pretty good and we have a whole new bunch that also climbs well..
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Sep 23, 2011 - 03:55pm PT
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I see a lot more people leading harder trad now than I did 30 years ago.
In total numbers yes.
As a percent of the climbing population as a whole, no.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Sep 23, 2011 - 04:16pm PT
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Yea but all the kids in the gym and @ camp kill a kid do not count. They are not really climbers per say. 30 years ago there was not a conga line on Castleton tower, Dream of Wild turkeys, Reacome Beast, Book Of Solemity etc. You may say that those are not hard trad but 30 years ago 5.9 and 10 was hard trad in most circles...
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Russ S.
climber
Seattle, WA
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Sep 23, 2011 - 04:41pm PT
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Hand the top comp kid the same gear as the FA, stick him at the base of Twilight Zone and tell 'em to do it like Chuck did it.
Did Chuck climb Twilight Zone as young kid, inexperienced at trad climbing? Didn't think so. I've seen a few kids go from sport climber to trad - if they want it they become excellent in very little time. Let's face it, gym climb is really a different animal and comparisons sound like a bunch of chest beating.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Sep 23, 2011 - 04:42pm PT
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Interesting point, but I still think it's a function of greater numbers overall.
Clearly the best are climbing harder now, though. I'm not disputing that.
Maybe not thirty years ago, but certainly twenty years ago there were more climbers on the tens and elevens at say Devil's Tower on a good weekend than there are now. While Spearfish and tensleep canyons have the conga lines. There is a smaller percent of the whole pushing themselves while placing gear than there used to be.
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SeaClimb
climber
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Sep 23, 2011 - 04:51pm PT
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Joseph,
Your premise was that gyms are not helping...my point is that BECAUSE of gyms, kids now are super trained in the art of climbing...protecting oneself is different than climbing...
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Sep 23, 2011 - 04:51pm PT
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Did Chuck climb Twilight Zone as young kid, inexperienced at trad climbing?
Of course not. It was the comment about giving them two weeks training, up thread, and then they'd crush that got me going.
Oh, by the way, *thump thump thump* ...HA!
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SeaClimb
climber
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Sep 23, 2011 - 04:52pm PT
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tradmanclimb...spot on...
Joseph hiked uphill both directions in withering heat while battling blizzard conditions BACK IN THE DAY...
yeah Joseph...its RuMR... wave!
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Sep 23, 2011 - 05:11pm PT
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Your premise was that gyms are not helping...my point is that BECAUSE of gyms, kids now are super trained in the art of climbing...protecting oneself is different than climbing..
"Gyms are not helping" has nothing whatsoever to do with my premise. And it wasn't my premise - it was Largo's (and possibly yours) - that the mean demographic climbs harder today then in the '70s - and I'm simply calling bullshit on that. My only 'premise' is that BITD or today the climbing demographic includes everyone who leaves the ground on a rock (or plastic) in any given year.
Again, walk into any gym in America, grab a random climber, take them to the base of a multipitch 5.7, hand them a rack, and see what happens. As I said, I'd be amazed if one in five left the ground. Make that a bouldering gym and I'd bump that down to one in ten.
It would also be interesting if the stats were available to variously see the attrition rate by day / month / year both BITD and now for everyone who puts on a harness; it would likewise be interesting to be able to take a snapshot of the demographic then and now and be able to see the distribution across grades.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Sep 23, 2011 - 05:13pm PT
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I was at cannon a few weeks ago and folks were on VMC direct Direct. A few years ago we wanted to try VMC but there was a party on it and a party waiting. We ended up doing Duet Direct behind another party and a party got on it after us. !0 to 12 years ago I was up there a lot and did not see that kind of action. 30 years ago I spent more time in the daks VS NH and never saw anyone climb a trad 10 or 11...
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Sep 23, 2011 - 05:15pm PT
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The total demographic today is bigger by orders of magnitude, so more crowds.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Sep 23, 2011 - 05:18pm PT
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Joe, Most gyms have little to nothing to do with outdoor climbing. Heck i live 5 miles from a gym and have only climbed there twice ever. Gyms are mostly for bday partys and camp kill a kid.
Stop trying to put them into the outdoor picture. it makes no sense. Go climbing and see who is climbing what.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Sep 23, 2011 - 05:21pm PT
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I know that I certainly climb harder trad today than I did 30 years ago;)
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steveA
Trad climber
bedford,massachusetts
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Sep 23, 2011 - 05:25pm PT
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Wish I could say that! I just try to keep up.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Sep 23, 2011 - 05:26pm PT
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My Body sucks but my brain has more knowlege than it did BINTD
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Sep 23, 2011 - 05:29pm PT
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Gyms are mostly for bday partys and camp kill a kid.
Tell that to RuMR/SeaClimb or really anyone in gyms in the Pacific NW. Also, there are folks here in PDX that climb v6, have been climbing for several years, and have never been outside or put on a harness. Are they not 'climbers' in today's demographic?
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Sep 23, 2011 - 05:39pm PT
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Those are Gym rats. they are not real climbers untill they take on real stone.
The annoying thing with those little Fckers though is that if they decide to become climbers they get good at it real fast!
I mentored one of those gym rats a few years ago. The first time I climbed with him he groveled his way up 70ft of 5.7 with about 15 pieces of gear shaking like a dog shitting razorblades and hanging on gear. A few weeks later he was leading 10+R and the next summer 5.12 trad...
Bastards!!!
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Rick A
climber
Boulder, Colorado
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Sep 23, 2011 - 07:07pm PT
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It is amusing to me how some of you see Henry as bigger than life. Henry was not matchless. He may have traveled around the world on a silver spoon with the press following, but when he was climbing at the level of his skills he never got any further above his last piece of protection than his peers.
I hope you were joking here, Dingus. If so, I took the bait. Henry was a bit above his last piece of protection on his unprecedented solo of the Steck Salathe, just to name one of his climbs where he surpassed his peers. And he raised climbing grades all over the world, wherever he went. You may question chopping the bolt, but to question his record of bold leads makes you look silly.
Rick
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Sep 23, 2011 - 07:48pm PT
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OUCH!
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