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Dolomite
climber
Anchorage
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Apr 21, 2011 - 09:05pm PT
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I couldn't connect to the Rock and Ice link Gene provides above. I expect Harlin was basically confirming what Mighty Hiker noted earlier: that the AAJ wouldn't be the record of trade routes on peaks like Baruntse. And that Krakauer should (probably does) know this, thus his sentence was disingenuous. But that was the only lack of balance I picked up in the byliner piece.
I do wish GM's old climbing partners, would speak up here, if they exist.
I am a little surprised that the kill the messenger attitude toward Krakauer and the why-didn't-60-Minutes-pick-on-the-real-criminals, or other inefficient, fiscally irresponsible nonprofits, or someone else (besides our hero) arguments at this late point in the discussion. They're irrelevant.
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LuckyPink
climber
the last bivy
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Apr 21, 2011 - 09:09pm PT
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I would hope that people do not miss the current political significance of debunking Mortenson's work in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Anyone who swallows the hook tossed by the American media is exercising a glorious naivete. Neither is Krakaur interested in anything more than his own fame and fortune.
In the next couple months I bet we see another ramp up of the war there and a call for more military spending and fewer constitutional rights.
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Gene
climber
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Apr 21, 2011 - 09:12pm PT
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Dolomite,
You're right. The link I posted is now dead. Strange.
g
EDIT: In the dead link statement JK promised to remove the reference to the AAC in his endnotes quoted below.
1 According to Three Cups of Tea (pages 10 and 44), Mortenson
was an accomplished mountaineer who, before attempting
K2, had made “half a dozen successful Himalayan ascents,”
including climbs of 24,688-foot Annapurna IV and 23,389-
foot Baruntse, both of which are in Nepal. But there is no
record in the American Alpine Journal (which meticulously
documents all ascents of Annapurna IV, Baruntse, and other
major Himalayan peaks) of Mortenson reaching the summit
of, or even attempting, any Himalayan mountain prior to
1993. Scott Darsney, Greg’s climbing partner on K2, confirms
that Mortenson had never been to the Himalaya or Karakoram
before going to K2.
g
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Apr 21, 2011 - 09:15pm PT
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Mortenson puts the blame for the inaccuracies in Three Cups of Tea on his co-writer, David Oliver Relin
This sounded like a cop-out to me, but there may be more truth to this then I first thought.
In a 2008 interview Relin takes all the credit.
http://etude.uoregon.edu/winter2008/relin/
David Oliver Relin is a Portland-based writer and the author of the New York Times bestseller Three Cups of Tea: One Man's Mission to Promote Peace...One School at a Time
Three Cups of Tea wasn't a co-written book, but you share a byline with the main character, Greg Mortenson. How did that come about?
That’s been the only negative thing about this whole adventure for me. After I turned in the manuscript, ]I received a galley back from the publisher with two names on it. It was published that way over my objections.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Apr 21, 2011 - 09:28pm PT
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Blaming it on Relin is a cop-out since Relin supposedly learned the story from GM (and others). But more importantly, GM has been telling the same story that appears in the book at his talks - don't think he can blame that on Relin!
Something else, if one's name shows up on any document as an author, it is that person's responsibility to make darn sure it is accurate (if it is portrayed as the truth).
GM has done some good with these schools. That is not in dispute. But he's also lied about some things - and even he admits that (i.e., compression of time, one trip was really multiple trips, etc.) Though he's done good, to me, his credibility is shot.
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Dolomite
climber
Anchorage
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Apr 21, 2011 - 09:36pm PT
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I have no doubt that Relin wrote the book himself. Mortenson was the subject of the book, not its author, even though you would have never got that impression from GM himself, until now. But I highly doubt Relin fabricated a climbing resume for GM. And GM certainly had a chance to correct any minor errors before the book went to press.
I note that Relin has not made a public statement yet. Could that be because he benefited directly from 1.75 million dollars worth of promotion in 2009 from CAI to pad his reputed fifty percent of the royalties?
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Gene
climber
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Apr 21, 2011 - 09:48pm PT
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According to Three Cups of Tea (pages 10 and 44), Mortenson was an accomplished mountaineer who, before attempting K2, had made “half a dozen successful Himalayan ascents,” including climbs of 24,688-foot Annapurna IV and 23,389-foot Baruntse, both of which are in Nepal.
Also, one of the reasons I decided to climb a mountain to honor my sister Christa is that the very same hour that my sister died, I actually was climbing in Mount Sill which is in the east Sierra Mountains in California, and I fell about 800 feet. And the exact same hour that my sister died from epilepsy, I fell about 800 feet down a mountain. And earlier in the day, I had seen a ruby-throated hummingbird up near the top of the mountain, and ruby hummingbirds don't fly at 14,000 feet. ~GM http://www.achievement.org/autodoc/page/mor0int-5
An 800 foot whipper on Mt. Sill, of all places, is possible I guess for a K2 hopeful with half a dozen successful Himalayan ascents already under his belt, but falling at the same time his sister passes and seeing an out of bounds ruby-throated hummingbird?
Literary license?
Of course, this proves nothing other than I am bored.
g
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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Apr 21, 2011 - 09:57pm PT
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Interesting story, BJ!
What GM said in 2001 doesn't match his latest interview with Outside magazine, where he supposedly explains what happened. The amounts of time in the village Korphe are totally different.
Here's from March, 2001:
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20010329&slug=judd29
He and another climber, Scott Darsney, walked off the mountain, into rural Pakistan, devastated.
"I was pretty exhausted, emaciated and emotionally kind of shot," he said from his office in Bozeman, Mont., this week.
The climbers eventually stumbled into a Pakistani village, Korphe, where two Balti porters took them in and patiently nursed them back to health with goat's milk, yak butter and unleavened bread. "I was overwhelmed with their hospitality," he recalls. "It was to the point of embarrassment."
Mortenson asked his hosts if the village had a school. They led him to an orchard where 84 children squatted in the dirt, doing their lessons by sharing six slate boards. Their teacher, an expensive luxury at $1 a day, was shared with another village and was nowhere to be seen this day.
Mortenson never let the image or those children's faces (whose look of determination reminded him of his sister) leave his thoughts. He vowed to return to this country and raise money to build them a school, which he figured would cost $12,800.
and here's from last weekend after the story broke.
http://outsideonline.com/adventure/travel-ga-greg-mortenson-interview-sidwcmdev_155690.html?page=2
We spent a night at the snout of the Biafo Glacier.
The next morning I was so weak that I pretty much ditched everything I had. We started walking at around 10 or 11, I got left behind as usual, and I was alone when I hit a fork in the road. When you’re coming out from there, there’s a fork in the trail about two hours before Askole, a village where expeditions park their jeeps when they hit the trailhead. If you go north, to the left—which I did—it goes to Korphe. The main trail goes right, or to the south, heading to Askole. I made a wrong turn there. So I ended up in Korphe. I was met there by Hajj Ali, the village chief.
I got to Korphe, I would say, early afternoon. And this is my best memory: I wandered into the village. There were graves before the village, some kids met me, and we went up to the house of Hajj Ali. I remember collapsing by the inner hearth of his house. I thought I was in Askole, but they said, No, you’re in Korphe.
I was there a few hours, probably two or three hours, had tea, and I said, I gotta go to Askole. They took me to a cable-pulley bridge over the Braldu River. And I can’t remember now, but Mouzafer either came over to me or I went over to him, but that’s where we met. Later, we rejoined Scott and the others and we drove to Skardu.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Apr 21, 2011 - 10:03pm PT
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So the "simplification" "time compression" and "omissions" that he blames on his co-writer and editors was already part of his story years before the book was written.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Apr 21, 2011 - 10:25pm PT
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Though he's done good, to me, his credibility is shot.
Crimpergirl's post defines things eminently.
(Many here,including myself, are uncomfortable with Mr Krakauer as torch-bearer for the expose'. But Greg's credibility is gone. Hopefully, the legitimate aspects of CAI mission won't be decimated, but...
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Amicus
Trad climber
Dog Patch, CA
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Apr 21, 2011 - 10:40pm PT
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I'm having trouble making sense of the updated recount of stumbling into Korphe as presented in the outside interview. So doing some armchair map reading I tried to replay the account given below on the map.
http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=35.671382,75.830984&spn=0.052504,0.097418&z=14&lci=com.panoramio.all
Quote: " I was alone when I hit a fork in the road. When you’re coming out from there, there’s a fork in the trail about two hours before Askole, a village where expeditions park their jeeps when they hit the trailhead. If you go north, to the left—which I did—it goes to Korphe. The main trail goes right, or to the south, heading to Askole."
You can check the valley out pretty quickly on google earth. The main valley running up and down from the K2 basecamps runs east/west. Anyone exiting would be walking west down the valley. Korphe appears to be on the south bank of the river (skiers left) cutting though the valley while Askole is on the north (skiers right). If there's a fork up stream from Korphe and Askole in the trail (which is where GM says he strayed in the wrong direction) he would have been taking the left fork south (skiers left) while heading out.
Could be a simple mistake of north and south.
(He also would have had to cross the glacial river at some point to do it.)
Is there a bridge or a ford up there?
It casts doubt on where the story is coming from. Just imagining being there, but I have trouble with the idea of an experienced mountaineer who's been living outside in the same valley for two months. He watches the sun go up and down every day and should be paying attention to snow quality and what direction it's getting hit by the sun. Pretty basic stuff to staying alive in the mountains. But who then can't keep straight which direction is north and south in his story telling when it really matters to tell the story as it happened.
my2cents
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Dolomite
climber
Anchorage
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Apr 21, 2011 - 10:42pm PT
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My guess is that there are a lot of people out there who know more than they're saying in the public space, under the "if you don't have anything good to say don't say it" model. I can respect that.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Apr 21, 2011 - 11:02pm PT
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^ ^
Coz speaks the truth EXCEPT that Largo is best climbing writer of all time, at least in English, can't say about other languages.
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Ezra Ellis
Trad climber
WA, & NC & Idaho
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Apr 21, 2011 - 11:04pm PT
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I think you all are wrong!
Joe Simpson is the best climbing writer ever!.....:)
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Apr 21, 2011 - 11:06pm PT
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I've really enjoyed this thread. Lots of interesting thoughts and information shared. All of that with no name-calling or jerkish behavior.
There are many great writers out there - thanks to all of you for giving us such great material. :)
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Dolomite
climber
Anchorage
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Apr 22, 2011 - 01:03am PT
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Nice link, klk, thanks. I would like to add a couple particular reasons for our collective defense of GM (which, although I didn't share, I think I understand). One, some of us have knee-jerk reaction to Jon Krakauer (my own feeling is that this is mostly unjustified--but that's for a different thread). The other reason, particular to us (assuming there's an us) is that climbing is basically a self-centered pursuit, and I think we all know this. So, here's GM, who comes across as one of us, and he manages, because of his climbing, to become a larger person, a humanitarian. It's as if climbing almost has some utilitarian social value. We can feel guilt by association, but also pride by association. It's hard to let it go.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Apr 22, 2011 - 02:06am PT
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An impenetrable Mental Fort, impervious to all reason!
GM is infallible.
How do you know that?
Because GM's book shows how good he is!
How do you know his book is correct?
Because GM is infallible.
How do you know that?
Because GM's book proves how good he is! I read it! It is proof!
But many people say GM's book has falsehoods and omissions. How do you explain that?
It all true! It was written by GM!
Why would it be true just because it was written by GM?
Because GM is infallible.
But how do you know that?
I know that because I read his book.
How do you know the book isn't wrong?
Because it was written by GM. GM is infallible.
But what if it is wrong?
It was written by GM, it can't be wrong. Even if parts are wrong, it is right. GM is infallible!
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