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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab or In What Time Zone Am I?
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Thinking of you guys.
Disorientation will be replaced by direction. Yeah, that time thing that needs to take place.
Susan
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Thanks Suze! If people could reach out to Sandra at this time i know she would really appreciate it..
Edit Thanks Neebs!
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there say, big mike... and to sandra too... take alone time, and get to know who each of you are, as yourselves... that will build you up, each, in your own... then, work on the depressions, etc... and what your next trail seems to be, as to growing and staying well, and--having a vision...
without a vision, of what next, where to go, etc... that's when folks slide down bad... :(
you are both well loved by all of us... sometimes, trails just can't mix, but then, later, you can still have a some special 'waves' along side, farther alone, and still be glad for the past times, and then--the memories won't hurt, etc...
god bless to you both...
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Karen
Trad climber
Casper, Wyoming
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There is a great song by a band called Dr. Dog called, That Old Black Hole that is spot on dealing with depression, check it out on uTube. Meanwhile, my thoughts are with you, hang in there!
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Positive vibes to both of you, Mike!
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Tobia
Social climber
Denial
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One of my psychiatrists, during the initial appointment, asked me a lot of the typical questions, then asked me how much ju-ju I smoked and how often. I was hesitant to respond honestly; but did so because I was desperate for help and had nothing to lose by giving an accurate response.
My reply initiated the following: "Go home, quit smoking ju-ju for 6 months. If you can do that, make another appointment with me and I will be glad to work with you." He went on to explain the effect of ju-ju on the brain and that it is virtually impossible to beat the black dog when one habitually smokes.
It took me longer than 6 months; due to having been a user since I was 13 or so. I was in my mid 30's when I gave it up. The black dog still bites; but I doubt I would have made it this far if I hadn't given it up.
Much later on I gave up alcohol; but I was a moderate drinker compared to my ju-ju consumption.
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Karen
Trad climber
Casper, Wyoming
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So is a glass of wine too much? A beer?
Locker, curious what you think....
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Norwegian
Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
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mike,
don't hate yourself
on your journey.
i can tell you
in case you're confused.
you're a good man.
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Not that this pertains to Big Mike . . . If you can't handle weed, don't smoke it! I am tired of the demonization . . . Quit doing meth and quit blaming cannabis!
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Psychic discomfort/pain can be a positive catalyst for emotional growth- a strong motivator for dealing with emotional issues that would otherwise be easier to just ignore or put off dealing with. Having a substance (prescribed or not) or a behavior that helps you to tune out that pain signal is a coping mechanism, but beware if it shuts down the motivation to face and deal with whatever is the source of the pain. It can keep you stuck in a painful space, perhaps letting damage continue or remain unresolved while you ignore the pain signal. Inner freedom for me means being able to look directly at whatever is the source of the pain, learn what I can from it, take whatever actions I think I need to take, and move on without that pain dominating my ongoing experience of life. A life spent running or hiding from pain leaves little time/space for peace, contentment, and happiness. I have found that escapist pleasures tend to be short-lived and hollow, tinged with regret or with some price to pay at the end that feels like living beyond my means- like borrowing money for something I can't really afford and thinking of the payback when I'm trying to enjoy it.
But I ain't no psychologist, and this is just my personal ideal that I try to live by, with varying degrees of success.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Thanks to Karen, Jaybro, Tobia and Scott for your love and concern.
Weege- Thanks. I will never hate myself because i lead my life by the principle of do no harm. I strive everyday to be the best person i can, knowing that all humans have flaws.
I want to do right by everyone, and not feel guilty about anything i've done. I have not always succeeded in this endeavour, but i always try.
I am well aware that certain drugs are depressants and can cause or aid a downward spiral. Thank you for the reminders. I have been feeling better lately, since things have been working out. She is seriously moving now, since i'd made my feelings on the subject clear.
I'm looking forward to a change in the air.
Suprema- i think that is the most human thing you have ever posted here. Thank You.
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skitch
Gym climber
Bend Or
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I started taking Wellbutrin last year after someone on here recommended it. It seems to help. At the very least my first thought when I'm feeling stressed isn't f*#k it, wish I was dead. I just wish there was a drug that made me believe that anything matters cause I still can't seem to grasp that part.
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Tobia
Social climber
Denial
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Skitch, you are right about there not being a medicine for that. Maybe you can take comfort in knowing you aren't alone feeling this way.
I have posted many times my struggles with depression; to the level of ad nauseam. Some people believe it is self-pity or attention seeking. I hope that is not the case, as I don't relish negative attention, nor is cyber attention very fulfilling.
Meds don't work for me; the best defense for me is 0˛ uptake. Even then I struggle with the point of a continued existence.
It is strange for me to be around people that love life in an unlimited manner; sometimes it is helpful and others it leaves me with a feeling of complete alienation.
The mind is a confusing place. I feel like there are several "me's" incorporated in one mind; one seems to get the better of the other on any given day.
I can't describe the differences because I can't remember what one self feels like when I am the other self.
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skitch
Gym climber
Bend Or
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Tobia, goddamn I wish there was an answer for us. I feel like I'm missing something when I'm around those life-lovers. . .I just can't figure out what it is, I just assume that I either have something f*#ked up in my brain that doesn't allow me to ignore the shitty parts of life as much as other people. . .or other people are just a lot better at interacting with each other in a way that I cannot.
I have always been a social reject, in high school I was picked on non-stop cause I, for whatever reason (probably stupidity), cannot keep my fat mouth shut. I also didn't do cool kid things like drugs, and smoking, and obviously no sex with other people!
After high school I went into the Air Force and found that I could get people to laugh by being really crass. I was constantly in trouble there because I talked too much and could not understand the what and why of what we were doing. . .and would question the authority given to the few dipshits that were too dumb to get out and "make it" in the "real world."
After the military I went to college, the next place I had a hard time understanding other peoples drive, I struggled through 5 years to get a degree in engineering, despite never understanding any of the classes I took.
After I graduated I went off to the Peace Corps, which was full of life loving do-gooders that couldn't see the world as a giant stink-pile, as I found it.
Thanks to the economy dropping, and my horrible college grades, I ended up back in college, this time for a masters in engineering, at the only school that would accept me (I had a 2.76 Gpa, they required a 2.75!!! and no Gmat test!!!). Struggled there for 2 years, still finding no reason behind what I was doing, except to not piss my wife off.
Now I have a "real job" and surprise, I absolutely hate it. I can never get anything done, I feel like I'm missing whatever it is that keeps these f_ckers going every day, and all I can think about is what I'm going to do at night and the weekends. I make great money, which allows me to buy multiple bicycles, a decent house and drive a new truck. Still I constantly feel like life is Bullsh#t.
When I think about what other things I could do instead none of them sound like they would really be any better.
How do people find fulfillment in anything???? I've climbed The Nose, 5.12+, mountain biked on the sweetest trails, have a really cool wife, 2 okay cats, 3 bicycles and I live in a climbing mecca. Still I don't find any fulfillment or real pleasure in any of it.
I grew up a Christian, which helped me at least feel like some aspects of my life had some sort of meaning, but now that I am pretty certain that there is no god, or at least one that gives a flying f*#k about humans, I have zero interest in life. I am able to distract myself when I'm out playing, but when I think even to this coming weekend I have a hard time giving a sh#t. . .but I'll find something to do.
I also hope that people don't take these posts as attention seeking, although in the end it probably is. I have a strong suspicion that my feelings all come from a deep laziness and that all of this is how I justify being lazy, or I'm lazy because I don't see any point in anything. . . either way I feel like a useless piece of sh#t, therefore I perform as such. . . I really think this world, and my family would be 1000% better off with out my bullshit dragging them down.
I forgot to take my magic numbing pill this morning.
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Tobia
Social climber
Denial
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Skitch, if looking for answers and trying to help someone is considered "attention seeking", then I put that off on the accuser.
I've been through the career rotation ride since I can remember. I have had many, the latest was a middle grades teacher; but I couldn't handle it. God knows I tried, or I hope he does. I loved the kids; but I could not handle the organization and the work behind the scenes. And that is as large portion of what teaching is about. I coached XCC running, the training and meets were easy, every other aspect was overwhelming.
I feel unstoppable when I am on the threshold of max VO˛; the rest of the day is like a fire drill.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Skitch, that was a super honest and open post.
Everyone goes through rough spots, but yours sounds more permanent. The thing to keep in mind IMO, is that 99% of it is in your head. Have you talked about therapy before, or helpful drugs?
My mom hasn't been the same since my dad died, 25 years. Just last fall she agreed to go on a "happy camper" med, that has seriously made a difference. I don't even know exactly what it is, or I would say. But the clear fact is that she's been better, without being a drone.
Keep doing everything that you can to reach for the gold ring. There are people that need you.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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+1 for pharmasolutions (not sarcasm)
+1 for staying strong for those loved ones around you, here or otherwise.
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skitch
Gym climber
Bend Or
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Thanks Suprema: Ive asked God and she said to shut up and quit being a little bitch. I should listen to God.
As to my wife: I'm only able to open up to complete strangers that I hopefully will never meet, not family or my friend.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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I just wish there was a drug that made me believe that anything matters cause I still can't seem to grasp that part.
At the core I have a nihilist view of things, that there is no intrinsic meaning in life or anything, and the only meaning is what we decide to assign to stuff. Depending on your outlook, that can be really depressing or it can be enlightening and empowering. For me, it means I'm in charge of creating meaning in my life and choosing values that I want to live by, and the acting accordingly. I choose values in large part by considering whether they would make the world a better place (lead to more happiness for more people) if more people followed them.
I go through phases where I don't find pleasure in stuff- but having a "fake it until you make it" usually helps me. I have a sort of inertia for getting involved in stuff or getting out of the house. Just last week I came pretty close to skipping my band practice, and I was soooooo glad I went. I expected to not have a good time (I didn't make time to practice new songs beforehand because I was focusing on fixing my gear, my gear was a mess, I was/will be out in weeks before and after because of vacations, etc.), and it turned out to be one of the best sessions in a while using a borrowed guitar and the house amp with no effects in the rehearsal studio. Pushing through the activation energy to enjoy the higher energy returns of an activity is something that I have to use will power for.
If you can get more articulate about what you don't like about the activities in which you engage, and explore your attitudes about it, you can figure out what to change to make it a more positive experience. Maybe chasing numbers isn't ultimately a rewarding way for you to experience climbing. Maybe focusing on something else like the camaraderie or observing the beauty of your position and surroundings might be a pathway that helps you enjoy climbing more. Maybe picking a new niche to explore like offwidths or obscurities or runout slabs might be the ticket.
Maybe there is some other activity you might enjoy more? Are you seeking to be appreciated/liked/accepted by others or feel belonging in a group as part of doing these activities, and that expectation is never satisfied as deeply as you would like through the engagement of any activity? That could be a deeper layer of issues with being or inter-personal relationships that nothing on the doing plane can solve. OK- end of armchair psychologist musings. These probably reveal more about my personal path and exploration than anything you are going through!
One other semi-random thought in response... during one of my darkest periods of dealing with difficult external circumstances, I volunteered for a community youth project (teaching guitar to inner-city kids in high violence areas), and it helped me a lot. I have seen that pattern where people who are unsatisfied focusing on self-satisfying activities often find a great sense of fulfillment in dedicating themselves to others.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there say, big mike, and all... hey there, to tobia, too, :)
the main things that needs to happen, which IS the hard part... is to just get through one day... by doing one day, at a time, and 'practicing' to not let someone else, or something else, BE your happiness, then, you can learn that YOU yourself, are the one to learn to 'guard over' and watch and tend to your brain and spirit...
some folks ask god, for help with that, which is what i always did... and other, read, or, talk to a third-party, as to a coach, WHEN they hit a bad snag...
but, the main thing, is, that ONCE one starts to 'things that are beyond their grasp or control' AS BEING the way to get out of being depressed and be happy, well:
it is the 'flies away like eagle' or 'illusive butterfly' or, the ol' rodeo ride, or trecherous cliff...
thus, please, tackle each day, at a time, and later, you will find TWO DAYs... AND onward, it can go...
it is not so disappointing, if you 'miss the goal' then, as you have not fallen so far down the ladder, that you feel you will never get back up...
don't look down, either, :)
if takes time to learn and know yourself well, and what and how, to make the 'even keel' of your inner spirite and brain, line up...
don't look at the success of others, as, folks are all different, keep looking at HOW you can work your trail, and TALK to folks about how you are doing... just remember: if they are NOT there on that day you feel you need them--this is where the 'you, the fledgling, has to USE that practice' ... exercise yourself to the next step up...
you are always there and with yourself, when no one else might be...
thus, your answer, can't be in other things, and folks...
that part does come later:
as you grow out of the things that caused, and can cause depression, you can find that you CAN have joy and contentment in doing NEW things and loving what you do, and you will find LESS and less, that you fall...
sorry, i know it DOES sound like a hard way to go about it, but... i have gone through the trail, and it does work, a day at a time...
before you know it (well, years later, it FEELS like before you know) you are a strong healthy plant, BEARING fruit and helping to coach others, ...
:)
folks here, too, have so much to share... keep checking in and find which advice works for you... and 'start' coaching yourself...
remember, the little critters, they hava a far more precarious life, but they get by, a day at a time... when hard stuff kicks in, (fly south for the winter, forage for food, fend of adverstiy) well, it just happens naturally, then, ... it is just part of who they are...
get strong, first, a day at a time, and each day, you can learn how you will naturally handle troubles, then... :)
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