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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Feb 19, 2016 - 08:57am PT
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Uh, How about the WALL around Vatican City?
well, about (those segments of) that wall:
“It isn’t all surrounded by walls, and it’s not like you need a separate visa or a passport to enter,” he said. “You wouldn’t know, almost, when you even entered Vatican City. There is a white line painted on the ground in St. Peter’s Square, but that kind of thing is not obvious everywhere.”
There are, to be sure, formidable walls in Vatican City, and much of of the site, including the gardens and the modest guesthouse that is home to Francis, is set behind them. But the walls do not entirely enclose the city-state, and in the modern era they are not meant to, historians said.
“Anybody can walk into St. Peter’s Square — that’s the whole point of it,” said Dr. Mannion. “It was designed to be welcoming and to draw people in like two open arms, to draw them into the heart of the church.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/20/world/europe/in-defense-of-trump-some-point-wrongly-to-vatican-walls.html?_r=0
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John M
climber
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Feb 19, 2016 - 01:48pm PT
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So you think the Church needs to be more judgmental? I didn't see that one coming!
being judgmental is different from judging righteously. Being Judgmental is a carnal mind, lower ego thing, whereas judging righteously must be Holy Spirit led and not come from the lower mind. As you judge, so shall you be judged, so judge righteously. So yes, we do judge. To love someone means that we don't pretend everything is okay, if its not.
eally look forward to the day when the United States can shed the 'bbbbbut he's not a christian!' bullsh#t. I don't give a tinker's dam what the pope thinks about Donald Trump, frankly.
My problem with Trump is that he is trying to fool people into believing that he is a believer. He spoke at a Christian college and tried to teach the bible. It was grossly pathetic and showed his overblown ego for thinking that he could teach the Bible. The problem is that many people are able to be fooled and thus its up to the spiritual leaders to call him out for his pretend Christianity. Christianity isn't something that you just pretend, its suppose to be something that a person lives. There is a verse in the Bible that says that some in their final day will ask to be let into heaven and they will say, "but God, I professed you". And God will reply " I knew you not". Its up to spiritual leaders to speak up and to not allow people to fool themselves or others. Its not the spiritual leaders place to make the final judgment, but it is up to them to speak up against hypocrisy and to help keep people from fooling themselves.
There is so many problems that are created when spiritual leaders do not speak up. Plus there are currently many false teachings.. The whole "unconditional love" teaching is one such false teaching. God isn't unconditional love. God is Love. This teaching on unconditional love has led to spiritual leaders not leading and not speaking up, which is why I am so grateful that the pope spoke up. It says more about him, then necessarily it does Trump. It says that he has moral character.
Any self-professed Christian who is an ardent Trump supporter only confirms the hypocrisy and delusion that is Christianity itself.
I don't believe that the belief in Christ, which is what Christianity is supposed to be is the same as its people, but yes, it would in my opinion be a form of hypocrisy to support someone like Trump by pretending that he is a Christian. But people want to be fooled, because they don't want to look at the beam in their own eye. If they had to question Trumps profession of faith, then they would also have to take at look at their own faith, and many people don't want to do that.
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Feb 19, 2016 - 01:58pm PT
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yeah, John. The Bible. Second best book to "Art of the Deal". I'm in no ways a christian or a believer but that was just f-ing pathetic to witness. I think it's called respect. No, I know it is. dou.chenozzel apparently doesn't.
On the flip side I'm not sure how much of a believer Mr. Sanders is but I can say that when he was essentially asked the question he did a pretty good job with his answer. He nailed it with his "spirituality" answer. Never said he believed but also placated many in my observation.
And just compare the two speeches at Liberty. Sanders comes out way on top which is not something you'd expect.
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dirtbag
climber
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Feb 19, 2016 - 02:15pm PT
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Trump is that loud-mouthed as#@&%e that all of us knew in high school, the kind of guy that made us happy to graduate and leave.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Feb 20, 2016 - 07:10pm PT
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trailridge127
Trad climber
Loveland, CO
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Feb 20, 2016 - 07:11pm PT
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Trump is that loud-mouthed as#@&%e that all of us knew in high school, the kind of guy that made us happy to graduate and leave. No he was the guy that worked harder than you, was smarter than you, became a billionaire numerous times and probably #&*$# your prom date. Everyone loves to hate on a successful person
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Feb 20, 2016 - 07:12pm PT
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Yeah, that's right.
Nailed it.
GO TRUMP!
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Feb 20, 2016 - 07:20pm PT
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Trump is a jerk, still stuck in high-school mode. The producers of Back to the Future modeled Biff the Bully after Trump.
I don't like to fight the Pope. I don't like to fight. I don't think it was a fight. No, not really. I think it was a situation, there was some talk, not really a fight. I don't think the Pope wanted to fight me. He said some things that weren't very nice. I said some very, very nice things about him. I don't think it was what you could call a fight. We weren't really fighting. It was mostly just some talk. He started it, with what he said about me. It wasn't really a fight. No.
The last guy to fight the Pope was Henry VIII of England.
I can see history repeating itself:
Trump gives the Pope the heave-ho because he won't allow Trump to marry the woman of his dreams.
Trump starts his own Church of Manhattan.
Trump chops off his third wife's head.
Trump marries his own daughter.
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trailridge127
Trad climber
Loveland, CO
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Feb 20, 2016 - 07:29pm PT
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Oh come on the pope is saying anything he can, to make the church popular again. Appealing to the weakness of the masses, unfortunately for him that ship sailed 100 years ago.
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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Feb 20, 2016 - 07:32pm PT
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Racists, bigots, birthers, sexists....yup, they got their guy.
Three-fourths of Republicans participating in Saturday’s South Carolina GOP primary say they support presidential hopeful Donald Trump’s proposal to ban all Muslims from entering the U.S., according to an exit poll.
A CBS News exit poll of Palmetto State primary voters found that 75 percent said they support Trump’s proposal, while 23 percent said they oppose it.
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Norton
Social climber
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Feb 20, 2016 - 07:34pm PT
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Hillary beats Donald by over 10 million popular votes and over 100 Electoral Votes
Church is already out, go home and come back next January, no drama
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trailridge127
Trad climber
Loveland, CO
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Feb 20, 2016 - 07:37pm PT
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Racists, bigots, birthers, sexists
Really petty name calling, grow up and don't rely on insults to prove your point.
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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Feb 20, 2016 - 07:41pm PT
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Name calling? Just the facts.
Oh you mean just because he says stuff like this?
Donald J. Trump
Donald J. Trump – Verified account @realDonaldTrump
I wonder if President Obama would have attended the funeral of Justice Scalia if it were held in a Mosque? Very sad that he did not go!
Can't imagine who he's trying to appeal to.
The President is a Christian, right? Born in Hawaii?
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trailridge127
Trad climber
Loveland, CO
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Feb 20, 2016 - 08:03pm PT
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Hillary beats Donald by over 10 million popular votes and over 100 Electoral Votes Way overestimating Hillary and underestimating Trump. The majority of people don't trust Hillary(reason why Bernie is popular) and the shadow of bill hanging over her. Dynasties are difficult to achieve. If I was a Democrat a would be little more nervous than you let on.
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dirtbag
climber
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Feb 20, 2016 - 08:18pm PT
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I'm successful.
I hate him.
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Chewybacca
Trad climber
Kelly Morgan, Whitefish MT
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Feb 20, 2016 - 08:37pm PT
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Dynasties mean nothing to me. I vote for who I think will do the best job, not for who a person is related to.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of Hillary. But her last name has absolutely no influence on my opinion of her.
If it comes down to Clinton vs Trump, I will pinch my nose and vote for Clinton. Trumps xenophobia is unacceptable to me.
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trailridge127
Trad climber
Loveland, CO
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Feb 20, 2016 - 09:00pm PT
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The election season has always bothered me with the candidates saying what their majority needs to hear to get the votes. I agree with you regarding Trumps xenophobia. ISIS is a main debate issue and in my opinion a global threat. I hope Trump is being over the top to key in on voters fear of a rising Jihad. I also hate that they all have to be pawns in one way or other. Trump certainly puts up the biggest fight against it, but is still guilty. I like that Trump is the only candidate willing to consider working together with Russia. Another cold war will be a terrible situation, globally. Looking at Trumps business portfolio he has little fear dealing with international opportunities.
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