Rancher +Militia vs BLM,trouble on the range.(OT)

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HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 3, 2014 - 09:12pm PT
Sorry folks, most all of our crazy, racist, paramilitary crackers still receive their govenment checks every month.

You aren't a real anti-government conservative unless you are simultaneously dependent upon or benefitting from government assistance while you decry and belittle people on government assistance.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 3, 2014 - 11:31pm PT
Tim McVeigh recieved over 95K per year in govt farm subsidies yet was dumb enough to blow up the OK fedral building because he hated the govt......
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
May 4, 2014 - 02:09am PT
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hhe8uafs5IE
Jon Stewart describes FoX Noise's attack on the constitution.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
May 4, 2014 - 02:21am PT
S.Powers

Boulder climber
Joshua Tree, CA
May 4, 2014 - 03:41am PT
Ron, you should apologize to survival for the REMF comment, you're better than that.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
May 4, 2014 - 10:27am PT
No he probably isn't.
On a positive note the white wingers seemed to have abandoned tis thread. Wassa matta Cow got your tongues?
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
May 4, 2014 - 10:29am PT
Vital cross-post. Be aware!


http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2397321&msg=2401623#msg2401623
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
May 4, 2014 - 10:52am PT
I figured out how I can safely travel into Neevadastan to go climbing.
I'm going to rig the body of my car like a giant taser. Then when one of those Anti-American basturds lean on my car to question me 50,000 volts of DC will launch their anarchist asses into a new orbit.
Have a nice day.




Howz that for an "Electric" car?
nita

Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
May 4, 2014 - 01:16pm PT
^
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Sanskara

climber
May 4, 2014 - 01:44pm PT
It's so easy if you made it past the 8th grade. Good job Bruce you musts went to university.

You privileged uppity f*#k.

Or maybe you just read and poses the capacity to see things clearly and objectively as apposed to how you want to see them. Something so few poses..

Anyway this place would be lost to the indigent without you.

Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
May 4, 2014 - 01:50pm PT
Thanks Nita! great soundtrack to read this thread by. It is also 4 minutes long, which is the maximum amount of time you should spend reading this thread before suffering permanent brain damage.

Ron - the only history that matters is the legal history. Cite case law and refer to statutes. Anyting else is BS.

We are a nation of laws, not of men and women
 John Adams -
johnboy

Trad climber
Can't get here from there
May 4, 2014 - 02:44pm PT
I suppose you can claim that sasquatches exist as well?

Well yeah!!
Prove they don't. lol



BTW
The FEDS are OUT OF CONTROL and won't do what I want.
waa waa waa!!!






"You can't always get what you want.....
But if you try sometime, you just might find,
you get what you need."
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
May 4, 2014 - 03:16pm PT
Nyet Brucie boy. No matter how many derogatory lures you throw at me I will not be trolled into joining this misrepresented shetfest.

I recognized early on Bundy's imperfections as a poster boy for this government overreach pushback movement. However, as I noted from the beginning, the most remarkable aspect of this confrontation was that despite over a thousand armed belligerents on both sides not a single shot was fired. If Bundy was left to face the over zealous feds on his own I suspect an outcome more in line with Waco would have occurred.

Power to the people. Carry on brain dead dweebs.
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
May 4, 2014 - 03:26pm PT
Ron: I don't really understand how you can read statements like Bruce posted and the one below, from the Reno Gazette article and believe it somehow favors your cause?

If the Bundy case exists under the historic umbrella of the Sagebrush Rebellion, UNR's Herzik still sees some clear distinctions. Most of the challenges against the government since the '70s — including the legal battles waged by people like Hage and Colvin — were conducted within the confines of the country's legal system, Herzik said.

"It was a protest movement, but it was still in the range of what you would call due process," Herzik said. "The Sagebrush Rebellion is more legitimate. There is a range here, and Bundy is at the far end of that range."

Bundy's dispute dates back to 1993, when the government designated federal land he used for grazing as protected habitat for the endangered desert tortoise, reducing his cattle allotment. Bundy quit paying grazing fees, with the BLM now contending he owes more than $1 million.

Federal judges, Herzik noted, have ruled in the government's favor in the Bundy dispute.

"Bundy had his day in court," Herzik said. "He just said I don't care. He's rejecting government authority far more broadly than what I would call the mainstream sagebrush rebels. That's where this starts to spin off to a more radical view of the Sagebrush Rebellion."

The standoff that attracted armed militia from across the country came with some worrying implications, Herzik said, adding that similar arguments rejecting all government authority have been made by groups like the Black Panthers. He described the BLM's decision to back down as a "tactical retreat" that was likely necessary to avoid what could easily have developed into a bloody gunfight.

It's also clear the situation is far from resolved, Herzik said.

"You don't get to pick and choose your laws," Herzik said. "Bundy is in a world of trouble because he doesn't have the million dollars to pay the (grazing) fees and he's now defied government authority with guns."
http://www.rgj.com/story/news/2014/05/04/bundy-standoff-roots-conflict-decades-old/8665725/
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
May 4, 2014 - 03:28pm PT
the most remarkable aspect of this confrontation was that despite over a thousand armed belligerents on both sides not a single shot was fired
So who was more sane?
The BLM who backed down or the Bundy "militias" who were itching for a firefight?
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 4, 2014 - 03:33pm PT
Sheriff is alleging that Bundy literally incited a mob of armed people to liberate his cows from the BLM.

http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25396688/i-team-police-say-bundy-ranch-protesters-not-off-the-hook

Clark County Sheriff Doug Gillespie has been negotiating behind the scenes with rancher Cliven Bundy for a couple of years. On the morning of the big showdown, he and Joe Lombardo drove to Bunkerville to let Bundy know that a deal had been reached with Bureau of Land Management to suspend the roundup of Bundy's cattle.

Bundy, who has grown accustomed to media attention over the past few months, said he would only talk to Gillespie on stage in front of his crowd. Once there, he ordered the sheriff to go out and disarm every fed he could find.

"And report back in an hour. Disarm everyone working at a federal park," Bundy told the sheriff.

"I mean, the hair was up on the back of my neck. There was the so-called militia surrounding the stage. There was a lot of firepower out there and it made me nervous. anything could happen," Lombardo said.

Gillspie and Lombardo say they offered to provide Bundy with legal counsel---free. He turned it down and later urged the crowd to go after his cattle.

"Mr. Bundy, in my personal opinion, incited the crowd," Lombardo said.

Some of them didn't need much to get riled. Their hostility toward government was on full display. A few equate the BLM with Nazis.

"That bunch, the SS squad or something to do with Hitler, shouldn't have guns there aimed at the people," one man at the showdown said.

They were equally hostile to journalists covering the story. Pistol-packing militia men have blocked 8 News NOW's access to public roads. Some poured lighter fluid around our news vehicle while others got physical.
Flip Flop

Trad climber
Truckee, CA
May 4, 2014 - 03:38pm PT
Over 1000? Is that true? It looked like a medium sized barbecue. Not exactly Occupy BundyLand.
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
May 4, 2014 - 03:48pm PT
Ron? Did you experience any of the anti-Forest Service hostility discussed in this Forest Service report?

I know people in Idaho that don't like the Forest Service, but it's nothing like what they were experiencing in NE Nevada. The report does mention the Elko Newspaper helped whip up the anti-Forest Service feelings.

Fact Finding Report
Work Environment and Community Relations
Humboldt-Toiyabe National Forest
February 4, 2000
http://www.wildlandfire.com/docs/2003_n_before/nevada_report.htm


Work Environment
The team determined that, except for one significant exception, most of the Humboldt-Toiyabe is similar to other national forests in the quality of community relationships and generally positive work environment.

During our interviews with employees and members of the public we were told of positive working relationships and successful partnerships that exist with the Forest Service in many areas of Nevada.

The significant exception is in northeast Nevada where most employees view the work environment as unusual and antagonistic.

Employees there described numerous situations over the past three years where Forest Service employees and their families have been subject to various forms and degrees of intimidation, harassment, and verbal abuse.
Many current northeast Nevada employees and former employees reported being treated disrespectfully and being exposed to highly embarrassing situations by community members.

Employees spoke of incidents where, while doing field work, they encountered people whose actions or language they considered threatening causing them to be afraid for their well-being.

In several instances, Forest Service employees either were refused service by employees of local businesses or were subjected to foul language by other business patrons. To their credit, business owners dealt with these situations when they were reported; however, these experiences were very troubling to employees.

We heard from two Forest Service spouses who reported being ostracized from community groups and verbally abused and ridiculed in public. One spouse told us that her child's teacher made disparaging comments during class about Forest Service employees. The issue with the teacher was raised to school authorities and is being dealt with. In two instances, church members were said to have left congregations after Forest Service employees joined.

Antagonistic treatment appeared to be due to specific actions the Forest Service was taking or to being identified as a Forest Service employee or family member.

Of the approximately 35 employees we met with in Elko, the majority said that working and living in this setting affected their sense of wellbeing. Lack of community support in Elko, Nevada, has caused some employees in that area to minimize professional and social interactions. However, others reported that they considered dealing with this a normal and tolerable aspect of their jobs.

Very few employees wear their Forest Service uniforms. Many preferred to drive white and non-greenfleet vehicles while performing their duties. Employees stated that these actions made them less conspicuous, and therefore, less exposed to animosity.

We heard from both employees and community members that believe in the past the Elko Daily Free Press fueled anti-federal attitudes in Elko and around northeast Nevada, including articles directed at individual employees.

The Elko Daily Free Press is the only daily newspaper published in northeast Nevada. A review of editorials on the Elko Daily Free Press web page indicates that the paper is strongly in favor of county, local and private rights and opposed to a federal presence in Nevada. The paper frequently featured headlines critical of the Forest Service.

Employees believed they had made good faith efforts to provide information of interest about the Forest Service to the community through the paper. They were frustrated that when articles on Forest Service activities did appear announcing Forest Service activities or programs they were frequently disputed in editorials and disparaged in opinion pieces by the publisher. Many employees expressed the opinion that the editorial content of the Elko Daily Free Press has devalued the role of the Forest Service in northeast Nevada and affects the working atmosphere.

During its visit to Nevada the team learned that the Elko Daily Free Press had been sold and a new editor appointed.

We heard of egregious incidents that occurred prior to 1996, including the bombing of the Carson City District Ranger's office and home. Some of these situations were resolved; others remain unresolved. Many employees have vivid memories of these events and continue to be troubled by them. Some incidents were never reported because the employee was not aware of the reporting process.

Many external contacts were troubled and angered by accusations raised by Flora in her letter and think the claims are unfounded or too all-inclusive.

The team found:
• Working relationships were generally good in much of Nevada. Where problems were found, Forest Service employees, elected officials and local publics expressed a strong desire to work together to improve relationships.
• An antagonistic work environment currently exists in northeast Nevada which has had an impact on Forest Service effectiveness. When considered cumulatively, the experiences employees described were beyond what is typical in work environments for Forest Service employees in other places. The work environment is difficult but is not considered dangerous.
This finding of an antagonistic environment in northeast Nevada is consistent with the most recent Continuous Improvement Process (CIP) Survey. A comparison between the 1997 and 1999 CIP survey indicates that while the results for the Humboldt-Toiyabe as a whole improved, results for the northeast Nevada Eco-unit declined. The CIP is designed to enable employees to provide input and give feedback about processes that affect



I. HAVE YOU PERSONALLY OR HAVE MEMBERS OF YOUR FAMILY EXPERIENCED AN INCIDENT WHERE YOU FELT UNCOMFORTABLE, THREATENED, INTIMIDATED OR HARASSED? PLEASE DESCRIBE WHAT YOU EXPERIENCED. WHAT DID YOU DO AT THE TIME FO THE INCIDENT. HOW DID YOU REACT?

Received pointed questions, unfounded accusations but nothing illegal — but what sort of support system do employees have to deal with verbal lashings?

"When I travel in a Forest Service vehicle in Central and northeast Nevada I often feel like a "sitting duck", a target. Staying overnight in Austin and Tonopah I usually say that I’m with USDA, not the USFS for fear of a hostile response." We were told when visiting Pahrump that there were certain businesses that refuse to serve the USFS. "It is an awful feeling to think that you need to travel in disguise. When I worked in California on the Eldorado and Tahoe National Forests, I never felt this way —I was very proud of what I did and who I worked for."

"Many positive things are happening on the forest, what a shame that this isn’t the story getting in the news. Somehow we need to redirect the focus to the positive side so that the publics get a true picture of what the USFS is all about. If it takes a staff of five PAOs to get the positive word out then we need to do this.

It is important that employees get serious training on how to operate in this environment, not just advice that we need to positively interact with the publics as if this were nothing out of the ordinary."
A Forest Service spouse who walked her son to the bus stop every day for six years reported being sworn, cussed and screamed at by two women, who also walked their children to the bus stop, whenever an article appeared in the paper about Forest Service activities.

A spouse reported attending a reception with her husband honoring the 75 th anniversary of the Chamber of Commerce and having a local resident approach her to talk. When the resident found out that her husband worked for the Forest Service, the resident stood up and announced to everyone in a loud voice "Attention everyone, I want you to know that Jane Doe’s husband works for the Forest Service and that we don’t have a problem with goshawk because my husband and I ate the last one last night." Everyone at the reception laughed and the employees left the reception feeling ridiculed.

An employee took his wife to a casino for an anniversary dinner. As they sat waiting for dinner, four people came over and sat down at their table and loudly berated him about Forest Service activities.

A child whose father works for the Forest Service reported that his middle school teacher makes derogatory comments about the Forest Service during class. He has referred to Forest Service employees as stupid. The teacher has published vicious opinion articles about the Forest Service in the local paper and told his class that he was going to participate in the work party that was going to open up the South Canyon road. He told his students that they would have to bail him out of jail on Monday morning. This was raised to the attention of school officials who have addressed the incident.

A Forest Service employee took his wife to lunch at a local truck stop and café. He was in uniform. Upon entering the restaurant they were greeted with the sound of one of the patrons loudly saying "Get those F------ employees out of here." They sat down only to leave 30 minutes later when no one waited on them.

An employee went into a service station to fill his vehicle with fuel. When he went in to pay, the cashier told him that Forest Service employees were not welcome at the gas station and they should go elsewhere. The employee asked to speak with the manager to find out if that was indeed the case. The manager told the employee that Forest Service business was welcome.

A spouse reported being verbally attacked in her home by a woman that she had met at her church and invited to her house. The woman berated her and the Forest Service.

A spouse reported that she inquired about joining a reading group that was forming and was told by the organizer when the next meeting was scheduled. She was later told that she could not join the reading group because several women in the group did not want a Forest Service employee’s wife in the club. The organizer said "It would make things uncomfortable, I’m sure you understand."

Employees who drive green rigs have reported being subjected to obscene gestures.

Employees have reported that their families have been subjected to derogatory comments in local grocery stores. A spouse said that people avoided her in the grocery store and would not respond if she greeted them.

An employee reported driving though Jarbidge pulling a dozer to reclaim a small mine. On the way through town, residents were lining the street with cameras and video cameras and one individual violently yelled at him "You Forest Service people have ----- up this whole canyon.

An employee rented a trailer from a local rental company. The taillights on the trailer went out while he was returning the trailer to the company. The police refused to allow him to pull the vehicle 400 feet across the street to return the trailer to the rental company. They insisted that he walk back to the Forest Service office and get someone to follow him with a Forest Service vehicle as he drove 400 feet across the street to the rental company.

An employee inspecting a mining operation reported that a dozer operator at the site tried to run her down with the dozer.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 4, 2014 - 04:10pm PT
It is really a surprise that Bundy is just another crazy ass dipshit and needs to put in jail now along with all the as#@&%es who pointed guns at federal and local LEO.


Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 4, 2014 - 06:18pm PT
Bundy, who has grown accustomed to media attention over the past few months, said he would only talk to Gillespie on stage in front of his crowd. Once there, he ordered the sheriff to go out and disarm every fed he could find.

Drama Queen, will talk, only if on a stage, in front of his crowd

coward
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