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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Mar 20, 2013 - 07:57pm PT
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Hey, I'm an unlicensed dealer!
Colorado IS nutz.
They need their own "Bloomberg" to ban bongs over 16 ounces!
(and now I'm so glad that I picked up a 15 shot FN .45acp, my new "Colorado" hi-power)
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TradEddie
Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
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Mar 20, 2013 - 08:57pm PT
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The assault weapon ban can wait two more years, after voters have had their say on how this congress voted on the amendment, and the main senate bill.
This "paperwork" issue is pure BS. Why bother to "require" background checks? Just make it appropriately illegal to sell a gun to a prohibited person, knowingly or not, with the simple defense available of showing proof of a background check. With freedom comes responsibilities.
TE
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Mar 20, 2013 - 09:40pm PT
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TE, it ain't paperwork no more.
It should be retinal scans and DNA swabs. I don't see what the big deal is if you ain't got nothing to hide.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Mar 20, 2013 - 09:56pm PT
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Colorado Police Chiefs Support Stricter Gun Laws
The Colorado Association of Chiefs of Police supports a state bill requiring background checks for private gun sales, as well as a measure that would ban high-capacity ammunition magazines, the organization's president said Wednesday.
"We understand that background checks will not stop all illegal gun sales, but it will stop the many people who easily can possess a weapon who should not be allowed to do so," Broomfield Police Chief Thomas Deland said in a statement. He said criminals are using the "background check loophole" to buy their weapons. "The ability of background checks to reduce homicides and gun violence is significantly diminished by this giant loophole for private firearm sales that criminals and traffickers exploit."
The group also supports a plan to ban high-capacity magazines, in part because of data that shows such weapons are often used in the shootings of police officers. Deland said one in five officer-involved shootings involve guns with high-capacity magazines.
"When a criminal chooses to use these rapid-fire weapons and their accompanying high capacity magazines, officers have little opportunity to protect themselves," his statement says.
The organization formed its stance on a far-ranging series of gun control proposals at its regular meeting last week, where as many as 40 chiefs gathered. "Several chiefs spoke eloquently of how an officer facing a barrage of ammunition was gunned down by these weapons of war and their ammunition. Further, we have little opportunity to protect the public when bullets are flying fast, deadly and numerous," Deland said.http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_22584777/state-police-chiefs-express-support-dems-gun-legislation
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Mar 20, 2013 - 10:04pm PT
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"...because of data that shows such weapons are often used in the shootings of police officers. Deland said one in five officer-involved shootings involve guns with high-capacity magazines."
One-in-five is "often"? More often not. Four-out-of-five times, what's that? Is that "often" too?
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Mar 20, 2013 - 10:30pm PT
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4% of gun crime is committed with the types of guns your politicians squawk on about the most. High-cap/assult-type long guns. Brilliant.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Mar 20, 2013 - 10:40pm PT
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what reason would someone have for saying they oppose expanded background checks?
anyone?
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Mar 20, 2013 - 11:10pm PT
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Making sure that criminals can get their hands on guns increases gun industry profits in two major ways.
The most obvious is that if criminals are buying their products, gun manufacturers make more money directly. Even if they’re buying them secondhand, that increases demand on manufacturers, since someone has to buy them firsthand to sell them to the secondhand market.
But beyond just that, the gun industry benefits from having a lot of well-armed criminals around, because their presence justifies the purchase of more guns for the non-criminal consumer. Gun marketing is largely fear-based, which is why Wayne LaPierre is always on about how the world is just about to collapse into chaos and you need a mini-arsenal of his industry’s products to protect yourself. They need people to believe that the streets are clogged up with criminals wielding guns, because that’s how they convince you to buy more guns and bigger, more expensive guns. They are quite literally trying to induce an arms race, which is why, inevitably, the answer to every question of personal security is to buy more guns and line the coffers of the gun industry. If guns stopped falling in the hands of criminals and the nightly news didn’t have a relentless flow of gun murders to report on, people might start to believe they’re safe, and they would buy fewer guns.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Mar 20, 2013 - 11:32pm PT
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Any ideas for getting our gun murder rate down to the level of countries that have outlawed guns?
Anyone?
You mean like Brazil?
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Mar 21, 2013 - 01:08am PT
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Brazil is hardly a 3rd world nation.
Red State Amerikkka however....
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Mar 21, 2013 - 02:20am PT
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Those records are available to LE anytime they need.
And if I recall, there was a HUGE fuss from the gun enthusiasts when it got passed... which coincidentally is when the assault weapons ban passed. 1994 was a good year. Thanks Clinton.
Records are only good if they are kept. People don't keep records because they want to. They keep them because they have to. What happens if a few gun stores accidentally lose a few hundred records here and there? How many lost or stolen (or unrecorded) guns is each shop allowed before they arouse suspicion?
Or more importantly(?) how many guns a year does someone have to purchase (or try to purchase) in order to arouse suspicion?
States already have their own thank you.
Only because of federal law... you are welcome.
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TradEddie
Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
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Mar 21, 2013 - 10:20am PT
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I can understand the concerns with a national gun registry, even if I don’t agree with them, but there are practical alternatives which protect everyone’s interest. Require background checks for all gun sales. When that check is approved, it should record the details of the gun and dealer into a central database. The dealer keeps the record of who bought the gun, and is the gatekeeper to ensure that appropriate warrants are required to access that information. For a private seller, it would be highly advisable to keep a record of that background check, but not necessarily an offence since the dealer and central database also have proof the check was performed. This system would simplify the process of tracing weapons, allowing cops to more quickly identify the dealer who last sold or supervised the sale of a gun, yet protecting the privacy of owners. This isn’t complicated or overly bureaucratic or intrusive.
Fight a national registry on its own merits if one is ever proposed, but don’t fight a reasonable measure which would decrease the ability of criminals to get guns while not affecting the ability of any law abiding person to have one.
TE
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saghi
Trad climber
Muskogee, OK
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Mar 21, 2013 - 11:47am PT
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Any ideas for getting our gun murder rate down to the level of countries that have outlawed guns?
Anyone?
Yes. Teach our children the value of human life. Teach them morals by example. Stop teaching them to rely on the government to solve their problems. Stop leading them to believe the government knows what’s best for them. Teach them that each individual is responsible for his/her own actions. Teach your children to lead a nation that can responsibly enjoy MORE freedoms than we already have! If you don’t have children, nearly every city in the USA has orphans that you should be teaching these lessons to.
It is very easy to tell by your arguments and train of thought that your goal is to restrict gun ownership NOT reduce gun crime. If your goal really was to reduce gun crime you should have reached more than one possible solution in 3000 something posts.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Mar 21, 2013 - 11:59am PT
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Yes. Teach our children the value of human life. Teach them morals by example. Stop teaching them to rely on the government to solve their problems. Stop leading them to believe the government knows what’s best for them.
sounds like a good plan!
but tell me if you would, just who are these people who are teaching their children specifically "rely on government"?
who exactly, please give just a few examples, of who these people are that believe that government knows "what is best for them"?
maybe show credible sources identifying these millions of parents who are deliberately teaching their children these things?
seriously, I was not aware of this vast organized effort, must be home schooling cause no school curriculum is teaching kids that
thanks for providing your sources because I am sure none of this is just your own personal opinion
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Mar 21, 2013 - 12:02pm PT
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I am no more interested in taking away your guns than I am in living in a nanny state. Where do you get off making such absurd claims. Sounds like you are parroting the straw man arguments of AM radio and Fox spews.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Mar 21, 2013 - 12:07pm PT
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Yeah, well I guess drama has it's place.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Mar 21, 2013 - 12:08pm PT
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So does the truth.
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saghi
Trad climber
Muskogee, OK
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Mar 21, 2013 - 03:41pm PT
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but tell me if you would, just who are these people who are teaching their children specifically "rely on government"?
who exactly, please give just a few examples, of who these people are that believe that government knows "what is best for them"?
maybe show credible sources identifying these millions of parents who are deliberately teaching their children these things?
seriously, I was not aware of this vast organized effort, must be home schooling cause no school curriculum is teaching kids that
thanks for providing your sources because I am sure none of this is just your own personal opinion
Calm down a bit. Did my opinion offend you? I should have asked the government if that was the best thing for me to do first, sorry.
jghedge asked if anyone had any ideas about how to get our gun murder rate down. Since nobody else answered, I thought I would. I was asked to give my opinion......
Since it wasn't as obvious as I thought it was:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/09/18/who-receives-benefits-from-the-federal-government-in-six-charts/
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