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go-B
climber
Cling to what is good!
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Ward Dr.F. would be proud!
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WBraun
climber
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The real you will never die but will continue to transmigrate from body to body according to the consciousness you develop in this lifetime.
But transmigrating material bodies is the house of pain which these stupid gross materialists glorify.
Those with real intelligence stop the cycle of birth and death of transmigrating material bodies and go back to their original forms ......
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Ward Dr.F. would be proud!
Those are cactus cupcakes for everyone.
Werner doesn't get one because he's been mean.
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MikeL
Trad climber
SANTA CLARA, CA
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On my phone and can't write much. Next stop, Seattle.
Cheers Ed and DMT, wonderfully put and agreed. You can both be poetic and scientific.
BTW, it's not quite "fun" for me, but more amazing and quizzical. But, no matter.
(Just how do younger people type so quickly on these little phones?)
M.
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WBraun
climber
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To those who are sick will need bitter medicine.
Those who are healthy always enjoy nicely.
The unhealthy Ward wants to eat cactus with sharp spines to suffer even more in his house of pain ......
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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house of pain
WTF?
Huh?
Whaaa?
Alright...now I'm getting hungry.
Taste better than Yosemte Valley crab apples .
Hey Werner , ever found the wild mint that usually grows under crab apple trees next to the Merced?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Saying NEVER had a long history of being wrong.
I am typing this on an insanely small cellphone with the power of a 1985 supercomputer, but...
Not written by my iPhone
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MH2
climber
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eeyonkee,
Glad to see you, again.
By changing 'sentience' to 'a sense of agency' you seem to at least gain a march on Largo's programmers.
One other thought, or question; could you write a program that writes another program with the property that it can do a better job of writing programs than the parent program?
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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On my phone and can't write much. Next stop, Seattle.
Ha! i jus got my computer run'in last month. My fingers are just now start'in to unfold from the last few yrs typing on that thing.
Man! For good huh?
i used to love going to Santa Clara when i was a kid! The Red&White Fleet,
The theme park, The Lost Boys. HaHa, jus jok'in!
Well atleast now when you get up there you should be able to see it, being July with the sun out and all.. i hear it's pretty dimly lit most other months. go check out Frenchmans Cooliage, i hear it's fun.
Good Vibes Buddy!
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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If you eat a cow and a chicken, you deserve your own reality show.
Move over, Canned Chicken Guy.
God Love ya, Blu, but its Frenchman's Coulee.
Everybody just calls it Vantage, though.
Probably the only cragging area in the US named after a mini mart.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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As for Werner's bitter medicine
I believe a doc's license is required to prescribe it...
and ya ain't got one, buddy.
No cigar.
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WBraun
climber
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Why does God make stupid humans?
Humans make them selves stupid due to their minute independence.
God told you NOT to stick your finger into the moving fan blades.
But due to your independent child like curiosity he gave you independent free will to do so .......
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Thanks Tvish! i forgot ur a local-yocal!
Speeking of Yocal's. Do you know Jim Yodel? i believe it was he who used to talk that place up back in the 90's. i think he called it Frenchmans Coolee-age? He's a Hoot! We put up some routes at Smith in the Gorge. The Blue Yoddeler or The Yoddeler's Blues. Have you done'em their pretty good?
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jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
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All I'm saying is that, at every moment, your action or thought is really dictated by previous thoughts & actions (eey...)
I would not say dictated, rather influenced. And if I were to have gone along with many of my feelings or intuitions over the years I would have made the wrong decisions - sometimes I did. It's amazing how those vague feelings can lead one astray at times. I've had plenty of faulty intuitions and erroneous "dreamstate" solutions in math research. A desired feature of that research is to discover solutions that are "anti-intuitive" - connections others may have not thought of - whereas common intuition has failed; this separates those many who would have gone a certain route and failed to those few who triumphed at a more challenging level. Kinda like rock climbing.
Within this framework I think we have free will. But some choose to be more influenced by intuitive processes.
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Naked mole rat named Vertebrate of the Year
Date:
December 23, 2013
Source:
University of Rochester
Summary:
The naked mole rat has been named Vertebrate of the Year by Science Magazine.
"Vertebrate of the year " in not an easy accomplishment, despite the numerous detractors and critics.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 9, 2014 - 08:54pm PT
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You have no free will, really, over what you selected.
-----
That's not correct, and is a theory derived from studies tracking brain activity prior to making certain decisions, normally pusing a button or other simple tasks.
Sam Harris made a name for himself showing that we don't have any choice over what specific CONTENT arises in our mind. It just geysers up once we hold our attention on a theme or specific question. This lead eyyyonkee to declare:
"For several months now, I've been mulling over this idea, made popular by Sam Harris, that free will is an after-the-fact illusion. At first I resisted it. He contends that our sense of agency is not what we think at all. What really happens is this: Our very next thought or action is not the result of any "I" in the way that Largo alludes to (that's the illusion part). Rather, it is entirely dictated by our mental "state" in the moments prior to the action. At the very moment of action we cannot help ourselves. We really don't have any "free will" at that moment. Our current "state" is dictated by all of our past actions (particularly the most recent ones) and internal images and memories leading up to the current moment along with a healthy dose of random chance, as we live in an unpredictable world (it changes from moment to moment in ways entirely out of our control)."
First, I have no idea where Eyyonkee got the idea that thought or action was the result of any “I,” according to me, seeming that Mike and I have been stating all along that this “I” everyone is grasping after is an illusion.
The other thing is, while we have no control of what material or content or qualia that geysers up in our Q Field (field of awareness) we DO have some modicum of free choice per where we place our attention and focus. That is why trying to get ahold of what sentience is by way of objective processing (mental states, actions, internal images, etc.) is the totally wrong approach and will yield you nothing.
Why, because none of these things imply self-awareness at all. A sense of agency is not sentience, nor yet does a continuous string of interrelated ideas mean we are aware of being aware of those ideas. Instead of “spending months mulling over (discursively thinking about) mind, you need to back off and simply and carefully observe, THEN state what you find. And it won't be what you just wrote.
Per programming sentience: He said:
"Again, as a software developer, I'm going to try to program something that reacts to both outside stimulus (the precarious world out there) and makes the next move based on all sorts of "state" data. I wouldn't even try to solve the "problem" that Largo poses because it is irrelevant."
What you are basing your assumptions on is the part that the Caltech doods tossed out immediately: That sentience is somehow linked to a stimulus response mechanism and directs what we do in terms our our actions. In fact this stimulus response stuff was recognized as being a purely mechanical process, at least in theory, and that being self aware of being self aware of the stimulus loop, has basically NOTING TO DO with responses whether we have free will over them or not. Sentience UNCOUPLED to stimulus responses is the concept here, since this happens all the time.
The clear and present truth of this is brought home when we sit quietly and do nothing and detach from all interior states and are simply present with being there in the here and now. Raw awareness sans “I,” sans ideas, sands responses to this or that or anything save for our bodily processes. AKA, "no mind." That is the challenge to the programmers. Nail that down in code.
All the other stimulus response stuff is another issue entirely. But that is a slippery one to get hold of because encountering awarenss unhooked from content is not possible discursively.
JL
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WBraun
climber
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Fruitcake is losing it again.
He's going to have a meltdown any moment.
While his so called rubber stamped "god"/"science" authority is being subjected to scrutiny of free will and mind ....
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Werner: when will you take the cactus-eating challenge?
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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The question of free will is a sticky wicket.
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