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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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Yeah, looks as good as any stone to take a hammer and steel to (eh, aid slingers, all fair game for the hardware?) --right up there with your Capitan.
Rock is rock and loses dignity when a piece of steel pounds on it--'cept for Ringing Rocks, now that place is music when hammers hit it !
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edejom
Boulder climber
Butte, America
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What my opposite said--AND to get that ridiculous picture that fattfraud posted at the top of the last page...
You must be the lowest form of aid climber there is, fatty--buying gear to use it as a parody prop, cause you don't need one of those to climb one of your avatar mountains surely...
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Da_Dweeb
climber
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All right. I just finished my paper, so I have time to respond to your earlier post, Steve.
However, the more I consider our continued process together, I confess that I am at a loss to see a point in doing so. Sure, I could gather the information you’re asking for and post it up here, make some kind of attempt at empirical or philosophical validation of Mark and Richard’s skills or approach while throwing in some kind of jab at you or Mimi. But ultimately, looking over 4 years of posting history, I’m not seeing that as being overmuch beneficial or getting us anyplace other than where we still are. It’s just more of the same point/counterpoint-attack/counterattack pattern that’s been going on between you/Mimi and Richard/Mark for years. Those two are much more qualified to speak of the details of their climb than I am, but not much seems to be gained through that approach anyway.
I’ve mentioned it before, maybe it’s time we try doing something different in this dance. The fact of the matter is that while I will never see what happened in the valley as anything but an unwarranted violation of personal rights, it’s also true that I understand your point of view on a lot of this stuff. It’s 1982 in Yosemite Valley, and here come a couple of young kids barely out of high school with no reputation in that community to speak of – unknown and apparently untested by most climbers’ standards – walking into the valley and stating the intention to put up a route on the Great Slab of El Cap. The way they talk about it plus their perceived lack of experience paints a picture to you and others that they’ll end up drilling and bolting their way all the way up the slab, breaking every rule of good, ethical climbing and desecrating the rock. It makes sense that you and the other climbers in the valley at the time would take action to prevent this scenario from happening. What I’m saying here is that yes, where you and others were coming from at the time makes a certain amount of sense. And I can see how it’s a viewpoint that you would not compromise on even now.
I guess that’s all I have - or intend - to say at the moment. Given that we’ve all passed plenty of water since the events of Wings of Steel, I’m thinking that the time has come for us to start building bridges instead of continuing to build walls.
If you want to, we could speak privately via PM rather than publicly where it’s more difficult to have that kind of conversation.
Though, admittedly, I would be disappointed not to be able to post at least a few more of the pony pictures I’ve been saving. Some of these are real gems…
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Just the facts Dweebsie...that's what I'm after. You are involved here simply because your pals won't remain at the table once they start looking foolish past a point which has been cyclical over the years.
The dialog has always been right here but your involvement as spokespony is just more of the same from Richard and Mark. People come around just as you have and realize that these gents have big credibility gaps. There won't be anything to come back to this time but a Lake of Fire. Hang tight, you'll see.
More silly Pink Ponies are just going to make folks bark at you again but have at it anyhow!
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Da_Dweeb
climber
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Well Steve, I must confess I'm somewhat disheartened, but I also acknowledge that I can't make this go any differently.
For the record, do not make the mistake of believing that I have "come around" to your point of view, or that I'm condoning the actions of you or others. I'm simply saying that I understand that you and others feel differently than I do, and why.
Further, you aren't entitled to anything from Mark and Richard. As for why they're gone, as far as I can tell they've just come to grips with the fact that there's simply no way to hold a conversation with you that will go any differently than it has for the past 3 decades.
I guess that's all there is to say.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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You must be the lowest form of aid climber there is, fatty-
Fatty's no aid climber....
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BASE104
climber
An Oil Field
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Heh heh. I was in the R&I office ten days or so ago and have a copy of the article.
I ain't spilling a drop.
On other news, Ammon went up with another partner and did the 2nd of Erik Kohl's "Hole World" after WOS.
R&I ia pretty cool. Even the old farts all still climb 5.12 to 5.13, and are putting up FA's left and right. Some of the youngsters are doing .14's at the least.
So it isn't like they aren't climbers. There are more vein filled forearms in that place than at, well, anywhere that I have seen.
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Gene
climber
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Base,
Any idea when the R&I WoS piece will come out?
g
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BASE104
climber
An Oil Field
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I think it is the next issue. It has already gone to the printers.
Amazingly, it has some nice stuff on climbing in the Bay Area. From the pictures it actually looks good. I am staring at a poster of the cover as we speak.
I have to run down from up high to deal with some business stuff now and then. I am totally off the grid where I am staying.
Ammon and Kait are good writers. There is an uber classic line in the article that Duane and I were hollering at each other over some Irish Whiskey a couple of weeks ago.
Super classic line. I wonder if people will notice it.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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It's not like I had to let WOS go, years ago. I never bought into the drama in the first place.
But I am very much looking forward to reading the write-up. It'll be the first ish of R&I i've flipped through in many, many months.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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I look forward to mimi setting the record straight on what the second ascent team saw up there.
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John Mac
Trad climber
Littleton, CO
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I picked up a copy of the latest rock and ice today and it has the wings of steel article in it. I thought the writing was good and they shared the experience well, but the overall I disappointed by the lack of good photos and wanting more depth, etc.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Does A3+ mean that the modern ("new wave") grade is A3+ = old school A5?
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Captain...or Skully
climber
Where are you bound?
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Nope. It's all A3+ or less these days.
Modern A3+ is SERIOUS BUSINESS.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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PDH not DFU
Edit:Pulled from the "Does A5 really exist?"
Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA Oct 22, 2010 - 09:57am PT
A fifty foot fall potential from a spot or placement where one is LIKELY to fall is very real and defined the A5 grade quite adequately pre-Deuce meddling.
Does anyone here actually think that a five storey roped fall, even into space, is trivial?
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Now there, laddy - don't go selling our Kait short. It takes a lot of stones to keep catching someone you love as he takes fifty-foot whippers.
And what, pray tell, do you mean when you write "the stench of selling out"?
[So many falls, and only A3+? Geez, Ammon must not be a very good climber...] {wink}
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Gabe
climber
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How is writing about your experiences in any relm, not just climbing, selling out?
Have we met yet MTUCKER?
We should share a beer sometime.
Thanks for the good words Pete. Kate did indeed climb WOS.
Gabe.
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icaro
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Respect!!!! They Rock!
Way to regulate....
Especially Capt. McNeely.
What a pirate!!!
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