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Douglas Rhiner
Mountain climber
Truckee , CA
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Sep 14, 2011 - 10:52am PT
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So CC, humans CAN have an influence on weather and or climate?
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corniss chopper
climber
breaking the speed of gravity
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Sep 14, 2011 - 12:25pm PT
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Douglas - no. BC deposition on Arctic ice causing faster melting is no more climate change than Depts of Transportation spreading salt and plowing snow off the roads in North America climate change.
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Climate: The weather conditions prevailing in an area in general or over a long period.
Weather: The state of the atmosphere at a place and time as regards heat, cloudiness, dryness, sunshine, wind, rain, etc.
In aerosol hot spots around the globe, solar radiation is
dimmed down on its way to the Earth's surface.
The resulting surface cooling turns out to be almost
in balance with heating of the atmosphere due to black carbon.
So no effect on climate.
http://www.nature.com/ngeo/journal/v1/n1/full/ngeo.2007.62.html
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Douglas Rhiner
Mountain climber
Truckee , CA
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Sep 14, 2011 - 12:36pm PT
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So CC, so how does the depletion of the ice pack around the Russian arctic not impact weather or climate? Reduced reflective capacity ( Albedo ) at those latitudes will only help to increase heating.
Cause - effect. No?
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corniss chopper
climber
breaking the speed of gravity
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Sep 14, 2011 - 02:49pm PT
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Other than more of the Arctic Ocean transitioning to open water for a few weeks in late summer before freezing again not much else has changed.
A few more summer rain days than summer snow days.
Besides you may not have considered how much extra CO2 is absorbed by open water in the Arctic Ocean: phytoplankton blooms which provide food for planktonic animals called zooplankton. Its major carbon sink than does not happen when the polar sea is frozen over.
So those obsessing over world CO2 levels should rejoice that Asian pollution
is causing early ice melt which allows the Arctic water ecosystem
to suck up mega tons of carbon.
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corniss chopper
climber
breaking the speed of gravity
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Sep 14, 2011 - 03:55pm PT
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khanom - not as convenient as you much find it to be gullible.
But wait, perhaps you're in denial of explosive Arctic phytoplankton blooms? Or maybe you don't believe in the krill that eat them? Or maybe you
object to the extra food these krill provides for whales?
Are you a secret whale hater khanom? Most people think more whales are
a good thing.
Shifting spring: Arctic plankton blooming up to 50 days earlier now
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/03/06/AR2011030603417.html
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GOclimb
Trad climber
Boston, MA
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Sep 14, 2011 - 05:10pm PT
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Ed H asked can you name a pre-WWII USG policy which was based on the result of scientific research?
I'm terrible at history, but wikipedia states that the National Academy of Sciences was formed under Lincoln. Are you suggesting that from 1863 until 1940, the NAS had no significant effect on US public policy?
GO
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corniss chopper
climber
breaking the speed of gravity
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Sep 14, 2011 - 05:53pm PT
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What?
Hey change is not always bad. The Indians are damming every river
out of the Himalaya because they sure as hell can't stop the black carbon
from a billion home cooking fires without having the electricity available
first to enable a switch over from biomass burning to cook food.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 14, 2011 - 06:12pm PT
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Hey CC, didja see this:
Scientists: Bacteria spreading in warming oceans
The paper also describes a host of other effects of ocean warming, both documented and forecast, including melting ice, rising sea levels, coastal erosion, increased storm intensity and frequency, along with chemical changes in the sea itself, including acidification and deoxygenation.
How about them apples?
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corniss chopper
climber
breaking the speed of gravity
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Sep 14, 2011 - 07:36pm PT
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k man - well that's funny. CLAMER rediscovering that the chemistry, the flora and fauna in the seas is always changing.
But CLAMER is quite clear on their website that they are a spin organization whose purpose is to scare the public by
repackaging scientific research on climate change into the most frightening bite size scenarios possible.
Oh and look. Here is CLAMERS director doing some sea side research
on the quality of bacterial yeast used to produce this beer.
http://www.nioz.nl/nioz_nl/c3eb8af837a06b52271a7d72e4eae5ed.php
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Sep 14, 2011 - 10:43pm PT
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guess you are unable to comprehend the map. the whole N American continent is unseasonably cold right now.
I'll go out on a limb here.
Last winter was unusually wet and cold. this trend will continue with increasingly colder and wetter winters for the foreseeable future.
Not bothering with any but the most frost resistant winter crops in the Obamagarden this year. Even the broccoli froze last year.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Sep 14, 2011 - 10:45pm PT
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Yes!
It was cold here last night.
Therefore, there is no such thing as global warming.
It's all really quite simple.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Sep 14, 2011 - 11:03pm PT
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Anybody with a PHD. (phud) in theoretical physics , knows that when the airs are frigid in the wastelands of New Mexico , that the planet is actually cooling off..The climate change deniers are a bunch of psuedo intellectuals..RJ
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corniss chopper
climber
breaking the speed of gravity
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Sep 14, 2011 - 11:12pm PT
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Dr F - but the weather changes every day. No day is exactly like any other
day. Claiming normal weather variations are evidence of a disastrous climate change is not working anymore.
What will your next move be?
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Sep 14, 2011 - 11:17pm PT
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"but the weather changes every day. No day is exactly like any other
day."
Corniss, your grasp of the obvious is simply stunning.
Powerful, powerful intellect.
However do you keep in hidden so well?
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Sep 14, 2011 - 11:20pm PT
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Time will tell.
Meanwhile I'm not planting anything frost sensitive for a few years.
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corniss chopper
climber
breaking the speed of gravity
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Sep 14, 2011 - 11:22pm PT
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norton - some out there need to here it.
Did anyone see the '24hr Al Gore climate deniers must die show'?
Nothing on the web but ads saying to tune in. No 'streaming' buttons
where I looked.
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Sep 15, 2011 - 07:37am PT
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"The word 'incontrovertible' ... is rarely used in science because by its very nature, science questions prevailing ideas. The observational data indicate a global surface warming of 0.74 °C (+/- 0.18 °C) since the late 19th century."
again: "The word 'incontrovertible' ... is rarely used in science because by its very nature, science questions prevailing ideas."
again: "science questions prevailing ideas" (or, at least, it's supposed to)
Nobel Prize-Winning Physicist Resigns Over Global Warming
Published September 14, 2011 | FoxNews.com
The global warming theory left him out in the cold.
Dr. Ivar Giaever, a former professor with Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute and the 1973 winner of the Nobel Prize in physics, abruptly announced his resignation Tuesday, Sept. 13, from the premier physics society in disgust over its officially stated policy that "global warming is occurring."
The official position of the American Physical Society (APS) supports the theory that man's actions have inexorably led to the warming of the planet, through increased emissions of carbon dioxide.
Giaever does not agree -- and put it bluntly and succinctly in the subject line of his email, reprinted at Climate Depot, a website devoted to debunking the theory of man-made climate change.
"I resign from APS," Giaever wrote.
Giaever was cooled to the statement on warming theory by a line claiming that "the evidence is inconvertible."
"In the APS it is ok to discuss whether the mass of the proton changes over time and how a multi-universe behaves, but the evidence of global warming is incontrovertible?" he wrote in an email to Kate Kirby, executive officer of the physics society.
"The claim … is that the temperature has changed from ~288.0 to ~288.8 degree Kelvin in about 150 years, which (if true) means to me is that the temperature has been amazingly stable, and both human health and happiness have definitely improved in this 'warming' period," his email message said.
A spokesman for the APS confirmed to FoxNews.com that the Nobel Laureate had declined to pay his annual dues in the society and had resigned. He also noted that the society had no plans to revise its statement.
The use of the word "incontrovertible" had already caused debate within the group, so much so that an addendum was added to the statement discussing its use in April, 2010.
"The word 'incontrovertible' ... is rarely used in science because by its very nature, science questions prevailing ideas. The observational data indicate a global surface warming of 0.74 °C (+/- 0.18 °C) since the late 19th century."
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 15, 2011 - 09:11am PT
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yawn...
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