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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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The beauty is that there next rebellion will be gun free because everyone will be stuck with a felony.
Well yeah, of course. Because we all know felons follow the law and don't ever own guns.
Did your mother drop you on your head as a child?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Jon Beck...You should know better discussing gun rights with bang bang around...You interupted his viewing of the basement gun scene from Tremors...
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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...You interupted his viewing of the basement gun scene from Tremors...
"Broke into the wrong goddam rec room, didn't you... you bastard!"
For those who aren't familiar with it...
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Thanks Ghost...
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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It would be interesting if States started getting organized on the public land scene. If the Feds did not manage a Ntl Forest, BLM, or Ntl Park due to budget cuts the states could step up and say, "we'll help you with that," and put some better management in place.
It might never happen but it's a theory.
A good example might be Calif State Parks stepping in to manage areas surrounding Yosemite so the state and local villages could better capitalize on Yosemite traffic.
Idaho is like 80% federal land but if someone smart stepped in and added a layer of competent management and then tack a 15% state surcharge on mineral, timber and grazing rights all while delivering a higher quality of service, it might attract more visitors and boost local economies. This would be great because have you ever tried to find a decent meal in Challis? Pretty tough.
"Never tax your own people. Plunder the neighbors." -Julius Ceasar Savage
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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In 2013, the University of Idaho did a study on the economic effects of transfering Our Federal public lands to the state of Idaho. Idaho, by law is mandated to manage state public lands for maximum revenue to schools.
That mandate includes selling state public lands at auction, to the highest bidder, and those sales are normal with Idaho public lands.
Per the U of Idaho study:
If the State of Idaho were to provide recreation opportunities similar to those that currently
exist on the transferred lands, as well as highway maintenance, the net income would be reduced
by $19 million/year. Payments to counties in 2012 were $33 million on the lands proposed for
transfer. The costs of managing BLM lands, net of grazing and mineral receipts, would be $53
million/year.
In total, after subtracting all these costs from the timber net income, the proposed transfer
would result in a loss to the State of Idaho of $111 million/year under the low-end scenario and
$60 million/year under the medium scenario.
http://posting.boiseweekly.com/media/pdf/pag-ib16_federal-land-transfer__1_.pdf
I am very opposed to any transfer of Our Federal Public lands to state control, since history shows the individual states then sell off those lands to the highest bidder.
Those auction lands are usually "locked-up" to future public access.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 4, 2016 - 05:57am PT
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As bad as Federal management might be, it is a firewall against local greed. Locals are always going to act in their short term best interests.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Oooo ooo ooo, Keystone Kowboys ringleader Ammon is going to take the stand today!!
Bet all the groupies will be there!
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dirtbag
climber
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I hope they all get sent to a FEMA camp.
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c wilmot
climber
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Ironically our fed gov is allowing the standing rock Sioux tribe to illegally occupy fed land by saying it's protected as a form of free speech. While the weapons/intimidation charges will remain it will be interesting to see how this plays out now that the gov is hypocritically allowing federal land to be illeagally ocupied.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 4, 2016 - 08:04am PT
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Ironically our fed gov is allowing the standing rock Sioux tribe to illegally occupy fed land by saying it's protected as a form of free speech.
That is not a true statement, the Feds expressed a desire to balance free speech with the trespass. The government never said that the occupation is a protected form of speech. Of course you have manipulated the facts to fit you narrative, nothing new.
Ironically the Indians have a claim to the land from a treaty the Feds ignored. Sounds familiar.
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c wilmot
climber
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"We don't have the physical ability to go out and evict people — it gives the appearance of not protecting free speech," she said. "Our hands are really tied." . This is what the gov said. I could say water is wet and you would oppose it.
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patrick compton
Trad climber
van
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when Lord Trump is elected, all public land will become private and sold to China
hurray capitalism!
#HeilTrump2016
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Breaking news:
Ammon didn't carry a gun around on the refuge, but he had one there.
He told people to take guns to the refuge because they were necessary.
Gawd told him to do it.
Sounds like a conspiracy to me...
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 6, 2016 - 04:53pm PT
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here is a few tweets that summary Ammo's testimony
Maxine (Oregonian)
begin 3:30pm pst
1. After Ammon Bundy spent hours in stand, prosecutor Ethan Knight spent less than 20 mins on cross exam
2. Knight asked Ammon Bundy if he was the leader of occupation? AB said 'no.' Knight took him to testimony when he said 'sort of' the leader
3. Bundy clarified that he teaches correct principles and let's the people govern themselves
4. Knight pointed to Bundy's testimony in which he said 'we were all there for a unified purpose.'
5. Knight: pointed to Bundy testimony that he didn't threaten/intimidate Ward, yet promised extreme civil unrest if he didn't get on board
6. Bundy said he was sure exactly what was said to Ward at that 11/19 meeting
7. Knight asked incredulously that Bundy used GPS to get to refuge but planned to stay until 2036?
8. Bundy:'You're assuming I acknowledge it's a federal property.'
9. Knight asked why Bundy sought to protect the refuge pouch of cash since it wasn't theirs but didn't feel same about rest of property?
10. Bundy acknowledged on cross he made changes to refuge - signs, used kitchen, etc, as part of adverse possession claim
11. Knight: you would take those steps in any govt facility and it would be yours?
12. Bundy:'No there's a process. There has to be a legitimate dispute.'
13. Knight pointed out Bundy brought guns to keep fed govt away, right?
14. Bundy on guns:'They protected us from being detained. I would say they allowed us to express our 1st Amend rights.'
15. Knight also had Bundy confirm that he received $530,000 loan from SBA to support his fleet management biz
16. Jeanette Finicum broke down in tears as she said she'd urged her husband LaVoy to come home the 1st week he went to refuge
17. Jeanette F:'The first part of the week I repeatedly asked my husband to come home,' she said.
18. Jeanette Finicum said her husband by end of first week at refuge had been convinced to stay because other local ranchers had urged him too
19. Jeanette Finicum said David Fry had been in contact with them after husband wrote a book ; she met Fry during weekend visit 1/22
20. Of David Fry, Jeanette Finicum said: 'He has a special heart.'
21. Jeanette Finicum said after her weekend visit to refuge on 1/22, she was to meet her husband the following Sat in Idaho, but he was killed
Conrad Wilson (OPB)
begin 3:29pm pst
1. AUSA Ethan Knight's cross examination of Ammon Bundy was very short, maybe 15 mins
2. Knight asked about Ammon's leadership of the occupation, the presence of firearms, his views on public lands
3. Knight also said Ammon Bundy has a $530,000 loan backed by the Small Business Administration
4. Regarding the loan, Bundy responded "I'm not sure that's not allowed by the Constitution."
5. On redirect Marcus Mumford asked Bundy, "Is the focus of your protest the commerce clause (of the Constitution)?"
6. Bundy said no
7. LaVoy Finicum's wife also testified about he husband's views on the Constitution and her visits to the refuge
8. "I was the city girl who met the cowboy," Ms. Finicum said
Leah Sotille (independent print journalist)
begin 2:13pm pst
1. AUSA Knight on cross with Ammon Bundy. The show just got good.
2. Knight: you are the leader of the group who took over the refuge?Bundy:no... Knight points him to testimony when Bundy referred to followers
3. Knight asks if he arrived in Harney County in Nov 2015? Bundy:...I believe I was? (Me: is this actually happening?)
4. Knight asks why Bundy used a gps to get to MNWR if "your plan was to be there...until 2036" by Bundy's definition of adverse possession
5. Bundy and Knight go back and forth over if it's fed properly. Bundy: "you're assuming I acknowledge its federal property"
6. Knight asks Bundy about pouch w/ $ and cards that he kept safe in his sleeping area that was found
7. Knight: you testified it wasn't yours &...didn't have a right to use it...but you didn't feel that way about the rest of the refuge?
8. Knight asked if occupiers did a number of things to change the property? Bundy: I don't know what you mean by "change"
9. Knight asked if they built a road? Bundy: my understanding was there was a road there at one time...so I'll have to say no
10. So Knight only did 15 minutes of cross examination on Ammon Bundy. I have so many questions about this.
11. Knight: you knew employees worked there didn't you? Bundy: I assumed they did...I didn't know their names
12. Knight ran thru Bundy's testimony about steps to adv possession: you could take those steps in any fed facility and it would be yours?...
13. Bundy: no...you can't just do it for no reason. Knight: so you would decide the reason?
14. Knight: Mr Bundy, you're not a rancher, are you? Bundy acknowledged no he is a truck fleet mgr and lives on an apple orchard
15. Knight: isn't it true [your business] is financed...by a $530,000 loan by the small business association? ..
16. Bundy: I recall it's through that but I'm not sure what exactly that means. Talked about how he got it thru a bank in AZ
17. It was nearly impossible to keep up with Knight. That man came at Bundy with ?s faster than any human could possibly write down
Karina Brown (Courthouse News)
begin 2:19pm pst
1. Ammon's testimony seemed heartfelt. Then he used the same earnest tone to squeak around straight forward q's under cross
2. Knight: So you would decide what the reason would be and go do it? Ammon: That's what the challenge would be.
3. Knight: you could take those steps in any fed facility and it would be yours? Ammon: No. There's a process, a time, a thing
4. Ammon: if it's not enumerated in 10th Amend, fed govt doesn't have right to do it. I can read that, if you want. Knight: no thank you.
5. Knight: 530k small biz loan from fed govt? Ammon: I recall that it's thru that, not sure exactly what that means.
6. Ammon: you have to have a legit dispute. You can't just go do it for no reason. [this is an orphan tweet probably referencing when one can adverse possess]
Chris Liedle (KATU)
begin 2:11pm pst
1. Bundy cross examination underway. Pros: didn't you threaten extreme civil unrest in Nov 5 meeting w Ward? AB I don't recall.
2. Prosecution to Bundy: You did not believe refuge was federally owned, but you tried to adversely possess it?
3. Ethan Knight (Asst. US Atty): You could take those steps for acquiring any fed facility? AB: Have to find a reason
4. A. Bundy was a bit confused on if he was in Harney County in Nov 2015. Knight restated what he met Ward on Nov. 5
5. Bundy testified for 3 days and cross examination only lasted 15 mins. I can tell you observers are perplexed
6. AB has $530,000 SBA federal loan. Prosecution portrays that Bundy relies on fed govt. Bundy said banker got loan
7. Knight: You brought guns to refuge to prolong stay. AB: allowed us to exercise 1st Amend, protect us from Feds
end 3:54pm pst
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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If he really believes all that, that boy is dumber than a bag of hammers.
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FRUMY
Trad climber
Bishop,CA
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pert-near
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