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Norton
Social climber
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May 13, 2016 - 12:33pm PT
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Is there an important point trying to be brought out in this employment talk?
Is it that US Presidents really do have, without a cooperating congress, the constitutional authority to influence private sector hiring?
if so, how is a President supposed to do this, wave a magic wand?
or maybe the point is that the Federal government can't do much at all about employment, is that it
is so, that would be very much correct wouldn't it?
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 13, 2016 - 01:29pm PT
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I asked JE that question, and he went off on deregulation and lower taxes for the rich
according to him
The rich invest their extra money in wall street, and some how that creates millions of jobs like magic
and if things went so god damned regulated, there would be millions of extra jobs, just like magic
of course it never works, otherwise we would have very low unemployment
It's just a con to get the suckers to be OK with deregulating and lowering taxes on the rich
The real way to create jobs is either have the Government create them to do something like fix our infrastructure
or raise the minimum wage, that puts money in people's pockets, that they spend, which creates more demand, which creates jobs
Either way, President Obama has no control over what so ever, It's Congresses job to do this, but the Repubs in control have failed to do their job
and have also blocked all Democratic Proposals to create jobs or raise the minimum wage
deregulations and lowering the taxes on the rich actually creates higher unemployment
I guess they are too greedy to realize that a raising tide raises all boats, not just theirs
The high unemployment is 100% due to the Republican Party
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 13, 2016 - 01:35pm PT
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if things went so god damned regulated, there would be millions of extra jobs, just like magic - of course it never works
Wow, gee, I somehow missed that Law of Economics. It must have been in
The Daily Worker's Annotated Guide to Karl Marx. And just when do any
regulations get rolled back? That isn't the way bureaucracy works - and
that IS a law. A Law of Life. We'll never know if less bureaucracy has
a beneficial effect because even if some benevolent Republican becomes
POTUS the sheer red tape of rescinding decades of idiotic regulations will
take decades to effect.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 13, 2016 - 01:45pm PT
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My job depends on regulations
Relaxed Air Pollution Regulations = no job for Dr. F
I'm one of millions in the same boat.
so I'm not sure I believe what you say Reilly
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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May 13, 2016 - 02:12pm PT
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My job depends on regulations
Relaxed Air Pollution Regulations = no job for Dr. F
Sucking on the public teet does have its drawbacks..
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dirtbag
climber
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May 13, 2016 - 02:17pm PT
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What a joke. Texas lieutenant governor Patrick opining on preaident Obama's decree regarding public school bathrooms:
"I believe it is the biggest issue facing families and schools in America since prayer was taken out of public schools," Texas Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick declared Friday, mere hours after the Obama administration’s letter was released.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/obama-transgender-bathroom-students-title-ix-223170#ixzz48ZZq9rYB
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook[
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Norton
Social climber
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May 13, 2016 - 02:22pm PT
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"I believe it is the biggest issue facing families and schools in America
wow, THE BIGGEST ISSUE = bathrooms
how do people so damn ignorant constantly get elected in Republican states
could it possibly be the voters?
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dirtbag
climber
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May 13, 2016 - 02:28pm PT
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Well, most of the right wing bozos who are elected make no secret about their agendas, so the voters must like what they are proposing.
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John M
climber
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May 13, 2016 - 02:29pm PT
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less.. more... neither works.
fair balanced well thought out regulations are what work. Regulations created for the good of the whole, not just a few. Whether that few be on the high end economically or on the low end.
we have had a few periods in history where principled men have thought up regulations. Then the self centered start tearing them down.
We need principled people in leadership.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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May 13, 2016 - 02:44pm PT
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Sucking on the public teet does have its drawbacks..
That's may be a little unfair to Craig Fry--things like environmental regulation are a good example of legitimate government regulation to prevent people from undertaking activity such as pollution that damages the public but for which the polluter otherwise would not pay.
Now things like setting minimum wages to interfere with the freedom of contract and thus to interfere with the efficient operation of markets--those are the types of regulations that need to be abolished.
Also, I agree that many of if not most government workers are "sucking on the public teat," but Fry's job at least may have some legitimacy, hard to say for sure without knowing more about what he does.
(Now even if his job is in some sense at least partially legitimate, he probably gets vastly more than he deserves in things like outrageous government pensions, not being an employee at will, etc., but that's a subject for another day.)
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John M
climber
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May 13, 2016 - 02:49pm PT
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Now things like setting minimum wages to interfere with the freedom of contract and thus to interfere with the efficient operation of markets--those are the types of regulations that need to be abolished.
open markets do not work without proper regulations. Including setting minimum wage.
A free market only works with perfect knowledge. Perfect knowledge does not exist at this time. Without perfect knowledge you end up with time lags that hurts the weakest.
...
The people who need protection are the weakest. Minimum wage protects them from the bully pulpit of the powerful. "just go get another job" does not work for the weak.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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May 13, 2016 - 03:07pm PT
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it that US Presidents really do have, without a cooperating congress, the constitutional authority to influence private sector hiring?
if so, how is a President supposed to do this, wave a magic wand?
I heard that Wall Street was going to create millions of jobs, but then the President hurt their feelings by calling them fat cats, so they decided to take their ball home instead...
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 13, 2016 - 03:10pm PT
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DR F, while I might descend to the nether world of sarcasm on occasion my
post was pretty balanced and free of unfounded hyperbole. MANY studies
have been done by reputable economists on the effects of regulation on
businesses. Nobody, aside from a few nutters, begrudges doing their part
to maintain clean air and water but one of the basic tenets of bureaucracy
is that
If a little is good then more is better
This is where things get sticky. A quick example. When formaldehyde was
shown to be less than salubrious to yer health the bureaucrats went nuts.
It was a brave new world with unlimited opportunities for enhancing job
security, the Number One tenet of bureaucracy. A law was passed that said
that if you bought a sheet of plywood that had been made legally under
existing laws yet had more than X nanograms of formaldehyde in it you had
to keep record of who's house that piece of plywood went into! The really
stoopid part is that you only had to keep those records for 3 years IIRC.
Now who is gonna get cancer from a few sheets of plywood in their kitchen
cabinets in only 3 years? If you can't agree that that was the dumbest
phukking law ever passed then we've no hope.
We're definitely headed down the Road of Ruinous Bureaucracy that they have
in Europe. It takes a Frenchman at least 9 months to open a business
in France. That is a fact. That is why over 200,000 French have gone to
Britain to open business because it takes 3-4 days in Olde Blighty.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - May 13, 2016 - 04:11pm PT
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Norton posted Is there an important point trying to be brought out in this employment talk?
It's that Obama really is as bad as people want him to be. It's that the economy is secretly a shitshow but the Illuminati is hiding it from us. Also, a black man apparently controls the Illuminati now because that totally makes sense.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 13, 2016 - 06:44pm PT
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Well you told me
Thanks
How about this question
What specific deregulations would create so many jobs that it will turn the economy around?
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - May 13, 2016 - 07:12pm PT
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Reilly posted
This is where things get sticky. A quick example. When formaldehyde was
shown to be less than salubrious to yer health the bureaucrats went nuts.
It was a brave new world with unlimited opportunities for enhancing job
security, the Number One tenet of bureaucracy. A law was passed that said
that if you bought a sheet of plywood that had been made legally under
existing laws yet had more than X nanograms of formaldehyde in it you had
to keep record of who's house that piece of plywood went into! The really
stoopid part is that you only had to keep those records for 3 years IIRC.
Now who is gonna get cancer from a few sheets of plywood in their kitchen
cabinets in only 3 years? If you can't agree that that was the dumbest
phukking law ever passed then we've no hope.
Formaldehyde is easily one of the biggest indoor pollutants. What the f*#k is wrong with you, dude? Europe has tighter regulations on most of this crap than America does. You can't feed your kid rice milk in Europe because they know the arsenic levels are absurdly high.
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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
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May 13, 2016 - 09:01pm PT
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Is there an important point trying to be brought out in this employment talk?
You just have to laugh when Republicans come out in public to say, our number one priority is to make sure the president fails. To hell with country or the unemployed, it's all Obama's fault
I remenber when Bush the 43rd said in a speech that he had created 800,000 jobs. A man from the audience yelled out, ya, I've got three of them.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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May 13, 2016 - 09:24pm PT
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This is where things get sticky. A quick example. When formaldehyde was
shown to be less than salubrious to yer health the bureaucrats went nuts.
It was a brave new world with unlimited opportunities for enhancing job
security, the Number One tenet of bureaucracy. A law was passed that said
that if you bought a sheet of plywood that had been made legally under
existing laws yet had more than X nanograms of formaldehyde in it you had
to keep record of who's house that piece of plywood went into! The really
stoopid part is that you only had to keep those records for 3 years IIRC.
Now who is gonna get cancer from a few sheets of plywood in their kitchen
cabinets in only 3 years? If you can't agree that that was the dumbest
phukking law ever passed then we've no hope.
It actually makes perfect sense. People should know when a toxic product is put in their house. A three year database gives people time to check that a product was put in their house that at least met minimum standards. Some chineses floorings for example, were found to greatly exceed standards for formaldehyde content. Some people are quite sensitive ( including me)
It also makes perfect sense to stop keeping track with plywood after about three years because most of the volatile formaldehyde has off-gassed by then, of at least the levels are way lower. Plywood that old isn't all that toxic. Most of the off gassing happens in the first year.
That isn't the case with all products.
There are products made with a LOT more formaldehyde glues (some OSB, Carpet, melamine, and veneer flooring). Some of those are being taken off the market. There are formaldehyde alternatives for most products, including carpets, flooring, and cabinets. Use those.
https://www.cpsc.gov/PageFiles/121919/AN%20UPDATE%20ON%20FORMALDEHYDE%20final%200113.pdf
http://www.testittoday.com/product/chinese-flooring/
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 14, 2016 - 07:00am PT
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Sure, we all hate regulations
But hating them is one thing, claiming they are killing jobs is completely different, and is the claim the people on the right are making.
The Dems claim spending creates jobs.
And all we have heard over the last eight years is that Obama has failed, and we need to go back to Reaganomics (which we really never left) to get the economy booming again.
So please tell us your claims of knowing how economics works will turn the economy around and create jobs
Please tell us specifically what deregulations will create the amount of jobs that will turn the economy around.
and
Please tell us how lowering taxes on the rich creates the amount of jobs that will turn around the economy.
I anxiously await your responses.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - May 15, 2016 - 06:09am PT
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I would argue that the majority of the time the problem isn't regulation but the inefficient implementation of them. When I lived in Arizona, reregistering your car was as easy as plugging in your credit card on the DOT website. I moved back to New Hampshire and all of a sudden I'm having to stand in line at the DMV 45 minutes away and then having to go to my town hall on top of that where they also, it turns out, don't take credit cards. So then I have to go get cash and come back to pay the damn thing. Unfortunately, in the name of "government efficiency" (which is often really just anti-regulatory malice) we tend to starve our regulatory agencies so that they can't get things done quickly even if they wanted to. For instance, the SEC is woefully undermanned to actually regulate the financial sector and inspectors of nearly all types rarely have the time to make it to a given site more often than once every couple years. Interagency conflicts don't help either.
If Democrats want to make the argument that government intervention is worthwhile (which I think is the best of the possible bad answers a lot of the time) they owe it to America to make these agencies more efficient and customer service oriented. The overhauls at the IRS at number of years back were a good start but we can do better.
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