Wings of Steel

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List

This thread has been locked

Messages 2458 - 2477 of total 2806 in this topic

<< First | < Previous | Show All | Next > | Last >>

Mimi

climber

Sep 16, 2011 - 03:20am PT

Riles, there is absolutely nothing proud about anything these guys did.

raymond phule

climber

Sep 16, 2011 - 03:23am PT

So what was so bad with their ascent?

mcreel

climber

Barcelona

Sep 16, 2011 - 03:44am PT

About what tolman_paul said about style evolving, one of my first longish routes in Valley was the N Face of Middle. Must have been '86 or so. I think it was called a grade V in Roper's book, so us being careful and cautious, and not too well informed, we hauled a small pack. We got most of the way up, but then bailed and rapped down. One evening I explained this to Walt Shipley, probably after he explained a Southern Belle or Keeler Needle story to me. His eyes opened a bit, and he smiled, and said "you hauled on the N Face?...", but he left it at that, an uncharacteristically mild response. Later on I realized how ridiculous our approach to the route was.

Da_Dweeb

climber

Sep 16, 2011 - 06:25am PT

Riles, there is absolutely nothing proud about anything these guys did.

And from your perspective that's true, Mimi.

Just remember, we don't see things as they are. We see them as we are.

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Sep 16, 2011 - 08:54am PT

dammage is done./ How can anyone have respect for someone who condones the crapping incident. SG himself at one point of this thread wrote that the shitting incident was no big deal.. where is the ethics in that?

couchmaster

climber

pdx

Sep 16, 2011 - 09:51am PT

Riles, there is absolutely nothing proud about anything these guys did.

MIMI, LETS ASSUME THAT EVERYONE HERE AGREES WITH YOU ON THIS.

NOW WHAT? WE JUST KEEP HAMMERING IT OVER AND OVER? They did a route. Took em forever. So what. It was years ago, and the route just saw it's 2nd ascent. A full report, nay, full VIDEO ...WOOT!, will be coming along soon from one of the best aid climbers on the planet. OK, maybe that was before he got old LOL...but the point is, why not let it lie and see what Ammon and kaite say about it? You are not changing any minds here, repeating what you have already said for the 12th time won't do it either. 13th time? I lost count.

That's my thoughts. If you want to do anything productive, at least report on the condition of the shitters. Who they were, where they are now, etc etc. Why is it a big secret?

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Sep 16, 2011 - 10:02am PT

Dweeb, give it a rest. you are not a climber....

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Sep 16, 2011 - 10:04am PT

Couch. It is a big secret because it was a shamefull act.

Da_Dweeb

climber

Sep 16, 2011 - 10:18am PT

Hmm. Fair enough, Tradman.

wonderbread

climber

Sep 16, 2011 - 11:07am PT

Due to this thread, the only conclusion that we can safely make is that the Dirty Waffle is the act of choice in the Mr and Mrs Mimi residence.

Da_Dweeb

climber

Sep 16, 2011 - 06:44pm PT

LG,

Uncontested. I meant it as an observation, not a sword.

She holds the perception that nothing they did on the climb is proud, that comes from her own bias of thirty years. Same as my belief that they did something valid and that was a hallmark of their perseverance comes from my own bias of what I know of the climbers and of their experience.

We will always view any evidence presented through our own personal filters. It's why this thread keeps going in circles, and it's why I don't really think that at the end of the day Ammon's article or even movie will wind this to a close. It doesn't matter what evidence is presented, folk are pretty much going to keep seeing things in whatever way they choose to see it.

“People generally see what they look for, and hear what they listen for.”
― Harper Lee, To Kill a Mockingbird

bringmedeath

climber

la la land

Sep 16, 2011 - 07:35pm PT

Steve Grossman loves nuts... micro ones!

Big Mike

Trad climber

Sep 16, 2011 - 11:09pm PT

Rox – I never questioned Steve’s rep. What I said was “never provide answers when asked questions about their records...”

I can tell Steve has a strict ethic simply by the way he continues to act 30 years later. I applaud him for his clean efforts, but does he require everyone to attend his church? It is akin to a Christian saying you must be of his faith to go to heaven.

I always thought climbers settled these matters by going and climbing the route and chopping the bolts when they didn’t find them necessary.

What I meant are these two questions from Richard for Steve and Mimi.

Steve: “How many crystals YOU have removed from a copperhead seam, from a crumbling corner, or from a beak slot! So, how about giving US a count, Steve? Hold YOURSELF to the same standard! I want to hear the number of incidents and the grams of rock affected. Or perhaps even you can recognize this stupidity as just what it is: stupidity.“

Mimi: “Do YOU ever climb, much less put up FA's?”

This is the origin for these two questions

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=963934&msg=963953#msg963953

I have challenged YOU to produce similar counts for your routes (it is obviously a HUGE issue in your mind, which it was not in ours), and you have steadfastly refused to even consider the idea, much less produce the numbers. Surely you know (since you seem to think that we do) how many crystals YOU have removed from a copperhead seam, from a crumbling corner, or from a beak slot! So, how about giving US a count, Steve? Hold YOURSELF to the same standard! I want to hear the number of incidents and the grams of rock affected. Or perhaps even you can recognize this stupidity as just what it is: stupidity.

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=236000

JM has admitted that it is common practice (even by himself) to knock flakes off to make room for placements. He seems to suggest that this is infrequent. I want an ACCURATE tally (along with some reason to think that he has any clue)!
You have accused me of "insulting" JM, so I want the quote where I supposedly "insult" him. And YOU tout him as your own prophet of purism. So, to you I say: unless you can produce for me an ACCURATE tally of "every time the drill touched the rock" AND every time the pick of a hammer touched the rock "to remove a flake" for any reason on, say, his last two routes, then it becomes PAINFULLY obvious that you are attempting to hold Mark and I to a higher standard of honesty, memory, AND "purity" than you demand of your own heroes.
Do YOU ever climb, much less put up FA's? IF so, then I want that tally from you as well, and I want to know what route this tally represents.
If you're not ready to produce a NAME for yourself, what routes you have EVER done (especially FA's), AND the modification tally (remember: EVERY time you moved ANY bit of rock, however TINY, in order to help or make a placement happen!) for yourself and for your hero's routes, then you are just spewing and not worth any further response.

I see that GC already bugged Mimi about this a month ago on this last thread but she probably missed it because it was an old thread. ;)

Tradman hit the nail on the head!

Hey, most of us like to move quickly and climb in good style but we all have our moments when that does not happen. Do we deserve to be shat appon simply for moving too slowly, climbing a line the locals did not think would go and not kissing the right arses?

The answer is NO! No one ever deserves to be treated this way. Not for any reason!

tooth

Trad climber

The Best Place On Earth

Sep 16, 2011 - 11:30pm PT

Yes they should. For any reason Mimi deems appropriate as a result of yet a third parties' skills.

So there are great gymnists. Mimi hangs out with some. She says it is OK to crap in the gym bags of the new kids who take longer on the balance beam since her friends balance faster and don't use chalk.

kaitb

Big Wall climber

Sep 16, 2011 - 11:48pm PT

Ammon posted this on the the rock fall thread, but I thought fits here as well.

While we were on WOS, we experienced two rock falls on Middle Cathedral. Here's a link to the short vid.

http://vimeo.com/28221780

kaitb

Big Wall climber

Sep 17, 2011 - 12:18am PT

I do have to say. I love the ending of that video. Ammon says: "Watch me". During those couple of minutes, he was on some super thin edge with a hook while we watched the rock fall. YARRR!!!

Big Mike

Trad climber

Sep 17, 2011 - 12:45am PT

Tooth! LOL! Exactly.

Kait- Holy Crap! :)

crunch

Social climber

Sep 17, 2011 - 01:34am PT

Great video! YAargh. "Watch Me!" Indeed.

Brings back memories of the PO Wall, leading the old "crux" pitch, given A5 in the yellow Meyers guide (prolly A1++ now). With Gobee, 1983.

Late afternoon, fixed head after fixed head, rumble, rumble, RUMBLE! A storm rolled in, hard, black and fast. Vicious lightning and torrential rain. And over on the Cathedrals, we watched a cascade roaring down the north face. Great boulders began rolling down, and entire trees.

We were transfixed, horrified. Hard to watch, impossible to turn away. Anyone on the DNB or nearby routes would have been killed while we watched, powerless to help or do anything. A weird, butterflies-in-stomach, doomy feeling. Seemed pretty likely that folks would be over there climbing, as it had been fine weather all day, and not long before (though, we found out later, apparently no one had been over there) And yeah: I cried and whimpered, not sure whether to be more scared of the copperheads or the mad weather: WATCH ME!

A couple minuted later a fixed copperhead blew, sending me for a screaming 50-plus-footer. Sort of a nice way to relieve the tension.