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Meaty
climber
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Dec 28, 2007 - 12:06pm PT
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Yep, I am a charm school graduate you dipsh#t.
What part of me NOT having anything to do with this incident does your dipshit self NOT understand! Piss off Nefarius, you haven't a clue who did this and for you to post up pure lies and innuendo is beyond pathetic because I NEVER made any claims about chopping or shitting on ropes.
Do yo know who actually did this stuff?? No?!!?..... you obviously don't! Well I do jackass so leave me out.
Nefarius, you're a pathetic bastard, I wouldn't call one of the people that did this a friend, so keep drooling you're baseless assertions, that seems to be the norm for some here. Again maybe the person that posts here regularly could get some sack and explain that I had NOTHING at all to do with this incident.I doubt it!
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MSmith
Big Wall climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 28, 2007 - 12:23pm PT
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Ed, Peter, and Riley,
By and large I’m pretty puzzled by what to say as the logical end of what you expressed is rather perplexing.
Ed: “it's been 9 months since your last post here...the vast majority have been responding in one way or the other to topics on WOS.”
Wow, that’s a point I never thought about. Actually, I do post here, just under the identity gunsmoke, my all time favorite boulder problem (I hope that revelation doesn’t get me kicked of the Taco.) A check shows 25 posts this year. So the Taco has been getting my input and insight into climbing beyond WoS, you just didn’t know it.
Peter: “MSmith, What is it that you need right now?”
Peter, feel free to call me Mark. I don’t think I need anything at this point other than the ability to freely speak when spoken to. Is that within your scheme of things? I do react and should have the full right to be expected to react when … slander is posted about me and/or facts about me or my climbs are falsely represented, as was the case here.
Peter: “still there is seemingly nothing that can be said that will make you feel better. Only you can get over this. How are you going to do that?”
First, it’s not your problem or anyone else’s to make me feel better. And what makes you think that I don’t feel okay? Does feeling better mean not having any negative internal reactions to anything said about me? Also, does the tenor of the recent posts look to you like an attempt by the community that would lead a reasonable person to “feel better”?
The implication of what you wrote, an implication I’m sure isn’t intended, is that I can’t or shouldn’t reply to my own slandering. Here’s what I mean. I didn’t restart this thread or have any need or urge to restart it. No glee welled up in my heart when it restarted and I didn’t jump in to post. Werner sees the thread and himself has nothing novel to say (who does after 1000 posts?), but hops in anyways and uses a bunch of terms like zealously dramatized…private little world of controversy... physiological wreck…fanatical aid…you get the picture. Fine. While a response to that should be accepted by the community as reasonable, I didn’t respond to those things. But Werner goes beyond the hyper-charged words, he states that we weren't really under any pressure from the Valley community, just from two detached persons in a single event. If this is true, then the angst I have expressed on the Taco is way misplaced, a proposition Werner all but spells out. Again, the implication of your post is that I shouldn’t worry about this and should remain silent while the Taco godfather has the last, unrebutted, word.
Peter: “So here we are today, on this forum, Werner, (and I would like to think myself as well) is one of the more thoughtful and caring members of that community of old.”
Riley: “People like …Werner are beloved not because of the routes they put up. It is because they can say "Hi", and mean it and not come off as an arrogent jerk or someone who thinks he is better than everybody else.”
Peter and Riley, there is a Biblical saying that goes roughly like this, ”What altruism is there when you do good to those who do good to you? Even lowlifes do that.” No, I’m not calling you lowlifes. But I am saying that to call Werner “one of the more thoughtful and caring members of that community” who says “Hi” [to you] means nothing to me because that thought and care does not seem to extend one inch past Werner’s own community. There are those on the Taco who are in Werner’s community who have reached out caringly beyond it to me. But Werner is not among them.
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mooch
Big Wall climber
The Immaculate Conception
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Dec 28, 2007 - 12:44pm PT
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Who's up for bashing Balwin and Cooper?! Anyone?
Better yet......Batso?
I don't know any of these gentleman but I sure respect them for their vision. And truly, Richard and Mark had a vision....not to appeal to the Style Gods of the time. Although the route sounds terrifying to me, I wouldn't mind trying at least the first pitch to see first hand, Richard and Mark's vision unfold. Nevermind, shitting my pants in the process (and hopefully not on my own rope as well). :/
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Dec 28, 2007 - 12:48pm PT
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Whatever, dude. I'm not going to have a pissing (or shitting) contest with you. Sorry, couldn't resist.
Maybe the persons who suggested it was you were so affected by your obvious charm that they chose to blame you. Again, I don't really care. Just as you choose not to out the persons you say did the act, neither will I out the persons who personally told me it was you. I will say they are very well known persons in the community though.
Again, I don't care if it was you or not. I simply stated what I was told by well-known persons in the community who were in the valley at the time. Obviously, I don't *know* who it was... Only the persons who were actually there and witnessed the act know that. But I do know what I was told and repeated it here. If it's wrong, that's their bad. Again, maybe there's a reason for that. However, not knowing you, at all, nor really ever having heard of you, except for maybe your name being mentioned here on the Taco a whole 2 or 3 times (oh and your single other contribution to ST, which was to call JB a liar), I really have no reason to be "after you" or whatever you want to think/portray. Maybe if you weren't the prick you appear to be in your responses here someone wouldn't be trying to frame you, as you claim.
I said what I was told, you responded, I think we're done.
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Maysho
climber
Truckee, CA
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Dec 28, 2007 - 01:02pm PT
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Mark,
Looking at this new turn between old pal Dimitri and Nefwhoever, I vow to not step into this steaming pile again.
I was sincere in my post in saying I am sorry that all happened to you guys, and my clumsily expressed point was how can we move on now. I did not mean to imply that you should not be responsive, and the difference between the tone I got from Werners' post, and what you take as "slander" illustrates the point that the sensitivity is still so high, that it is better to just stay silent.
So, to the original post that got this sorry story going again, kudos to you Mark for being a great teacher! That is what I am always working to be as well, and is far more meaningful than being good at hooking, or part of the in crowd, or adept at forum scrapping or really anything else.
Peter
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Magnum
Boulder climber
fresno, ca
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Dec 28, 2007 - 01:26pm PT
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hey Meaty, did it come out all steamy, back in 1982?
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mooch
Big Wall climber
The Immaculate Conception
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Dec 28, 2007 - 01:35pm PT
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hey Meaty, did it come out all steamy, back in 1982?
HHHHHAAAAA!!
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Meaty
climber
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Dec 28, 2007 - 01:53pm PT
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"I said what I was told, you responded, I think we're done."
So you're such a putz you believe everything you're told, nuff said about your feeble brain! What you really did was just come right out and slander me with false information and then just stand by that baseless drool, f*#k off!
This is so typical of a jackass like you comes on this forum and posts innuendo that you were "told". You're full of sh#t and you know it. It isn't over you dumbass. Scoll up dumbass and look at a post from Werner, he mentions two people, I am not one of them.
And Magnum, piss off as well. You jackasses just might be surprised who did sh#t on those ropes.
There was a time when I thought maybe it would be good to apologize to the WOS crew, but after this innuendo I could only express myself the same way as before. Stupid route by a couple idiots, piss off.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Dec 28, 2007 - 01:59pm PT
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Why knott just spill the beans for fuçk's sake?
We love a good soap opera around here...
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Meaty
climber
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Dec 28, 2007 - 02:03pm PT
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Why knott just spill the beans for fuçk's sake?
We love a good soap opera around here...
Just hold on, it just might happen very soon unless the person that did this gets the sack to admit it. And like I said before, I doubt it.. you know who it is!!! He did a slide show not very long ago and many here at ST attended. LOL
I gotta go, I have a life.
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 28, 2007 - 02:11pm PT
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The guy who actually sh'it on their ropes I personally ran him out of the SAR site and the Valley.
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MSmith
Big Wall climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 28, 2007 - 02:12pm PT
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Peter,
A generous response, and do I recall what you said (a year or so ago), even if it wasn't in my mind earlier today. Best wishes on the new year.
--Mark
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Dec 28, 2007 - 02:13pm PT
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Meaty wrote:
I gotta go, I have a life.
I do knott have a life, and don't mind saying so.
I await the truth with baited breath!
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Dec 28, 2007 - 02:24pm PT
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"There was a time when I thought maybe it would be good to apologize to the WOS crew, but after this innuendo I could only express myself the same way as before."
Interesting statement... On all kinds of fronts.
Most importantly, however, is that what I say, or really anyone else here says, has anything to do with Richard Jensen or Mark Smith. So, for you to withhold an apology to them (for what, one can only imagine/assume) is pretty spineless and pathetic. You're simply using things/persons unrelated as an excuse not to.
As far as the other folks mentioned... I'm not going to go back and re-read the thread again or any of the various threads related to the topic. The whole thing has simply gotten old and there are better things to do with my time. I do remember Bill Russell was mentioned a while ago. Someone respected in the community and posting here regularly said he was also involved. BFD.
Really, it doesn't matter f*#kall if any of us know who it was. I don't think anyone really cares or thinks a public apology is warranted. If something were to happen, the only thing that would matter would be a direct apology to Richard and Mark themselves. Anything else would be pointless, really.
And to put it so callously as yourself, since your only contributions to this forum have been to attack myself and anyone saying anything you don't like in this thread, and JB in your other "contribution" to the forum, with a bunch of childish name calling and temper tantrums..... In a language you might understand, why don't you f*#k off, you worthless sack?
Schmutzvink said "But I think lots of people took credit."
Kinda what I said above. Also concurs with what Mark and Richard have both said. Everyone wanted to be responsible back in the day. Funny how no one wants to be responsible now. But it also shows how or why folks might be saying certain people did, who didn't. Again, I don't really care. And to finally agree with Meaty on *something*, I have better things to do than worry about it.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Dec 28, 2007 - 03:41pm PT
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Boys, boys!
One of the things I really love about Mark is his Heart of Passion. In a world where there are so many who are "Plain Vanilla", it is refreshing and invigorating to meet a man like Mark who is not afraid to be real, and to stand up for what he believes in, who doesn't hide behind a fake identity, and who is willing to take his lumps.
I really enjoyed my time with Mark and Richard, and what I can tell you guys here at Supertopo [who have not had the chance to meet them in person] is that they are both very cool guys, and definitely Class Acts. I do knott say this about too many people, either, but these guys have proved it for the most part by trying their best to show grace under intense pressure.
As Men of Passion though, they have a tendency to rant. And while the therapeutic benefits of ranting cannot be understated, sometimes you end up shooting yourself in the foot because you react so hard about something you care so much about. Wings of Steel was a life-altering event for Mark and Richard - they have taken much crap over it, and while there are many who will never agree with them, I think most of us have come to some sort of understanding of what they did and why, even if it is that we "agree to disagree". But it is a very sore spot on their hearts - and if you touch a sore spot on your body, sometimes you over-react. I hope Mark and Richard can let this stuff go, and try not to rant too much, especially to people with fake user names. I want you also to know that they don't rant in person, they are cool.
Identifying alleged perpetrators on an internet forum is lame. Real Men work out their differences in private. If the person who shat on their ropes is reading this, I want you to know that Mark and Richard are men who believe in forgiveness and reconciliation, as do I incidentally. If you were to approach them with an "olive branch", I believe they would be willing to talk to you, or meet with you. Time goes by, we hopefully grow up a bit, maybe we can look back on things from the past through new eyes and a heart of compassion? Maybe you regret messing up their ropes? Maybe if you just said, "I think WoS is a lame route and an ethical affront on El Cap, dudes, and I'll always feel that way, but I'm sorry for crapping on your ropes...." it would go a long way towards healing?
I found Wings of Steel to be desperately hard. I had to cheat-stick my way up the first pitch. I couldn't even do all the moves on toprope, the hooking was so hard! To do it on lead on such long runouts over such marginal gear is way too insane for this part-time climber. You've gotta be really dedicated or really psycho or something I'm not. Tom replaced all the bolts and rivets on the first [legit] pitch and I think the second pitch too [I can't recall], so the route is there for anyone to give it a shot, and I hope they do. Fifty foot falls are not a possibility, they are a certainty - you will whip a long way before you eventually figure it out - far too scary for me.
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Ahwahnee Bartender
Big Wall climber
Fog Town
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Dec 28, 2007 - 03:48pm PT
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The El Cap Ambassador to the World has spoken ...
Respect,
Theo
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Dec 28, 2007 - 04:35pm PT
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"The El Cap Ambassador to the World has spoken ...
Respect,
Theo"
hahaha! And you thought this thread had enough tension and stress in it before... Let's just throw some fuel to the fire, eh? hah! Nice going, Theo! =)
Good stuff, Pete!
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Meaty
climber
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Dec 28, 2007 - 04:51pm PT
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"Really, it doesn't matter f*#kall if any of us know who it was. I don't think anyone really cares or thinks a public apology is warranted. If something were to happen, the only thing that would matter would be a direct apology to Richard and Mark themselves. Anything else would be pointless, really."
Oh, so it doesn't matter who did the deed? Then why the f*#k did you drag my name through the mud you dickless bastard?? Piss off you moron Nefarius!
"Schmutzvink said "But I think lots of people took credit."
Kinda what I said above. Also concurs with what Mark and Richard have both said. Everyone wanted to be responsible back in the day. Funny how no one wants to be responsible now. But it also shows how or why folks might be saying certain people did, who didn't. Again, I don't really care. And to finally agree with Meaty on *something*, I have better things to do than worry about it."
Oh, you don't care but you blamed me, f*#k off you worthless dipsh#t.
Everyone wasn't running around taking credit for this incident?? Don't think so you putz, get down of your hobby horse you assf*#k, nobody really gives a sh#t about you or the WOS crew jerkoffs. If you post pure lies and then are called on it do you always look like such a putz? Again, you haven't a clue what happened, you're just repeating the lies of the WOS crew. You and your pals can go to hell.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Dec 28, 2007 - 04:57pm PT
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One more good reason to hate AIDS climbing, LOL!
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Meaty
climber
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Dec 28, 2007 - 04:57pm PT
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"As far as the other folks mentioned... I'm not going to go back and re-read the thread again or any of the various threads related to the topic. The whole thing has simply gotten old and there are better things to do with my time. I do remember Bill Russell was mentioned a while ago. Someone respected in the community and posting here regularly said he was also involved. BFD."
So now that you've had your pathetic ass handed to you it is old and you're done with the subject??
I am not done with your sorry ass!
And I am proud to not only withhold an apology to your f*#ktard pals but once again you can f*#k off along with them. I do remember some people bragging about pissing on your pals and I only wish you were there with them for the golden shower.
Make a baseless claim like you seem to enjoy doing but you can't handle the inevitable heat that come with your arrogance?? You're a pathetic bastard Nefarius.
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