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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Mar 27, 2016 - 01:04am PT
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I'm really happy to see so much in-general agreement emerge. Some think that Bernie can't "get it done," but I'm not that fatalistic, and I would vote for him over any of the Republicans if he could get the nomination. And he's the one what-you-see-is-what-you-get candidate. He also appears to have genuine honesty and integrity, which does matter to me.
I can overlook a lot of particular policies in favor of his overarching emphases. There is no perfect candidate! If only he could get the nod.
If only....
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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Mar 27, 2016 - 05:43am PT
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Good posts NutAgain! and madbolter1
The growing income inequality issue is a troubling one and technology seems to increase it.
I have read some futurists who say a National Minimum Income may be necessary at some point.
With many basic needs satisfied in the future, we will all have more leisure time, which is valuable, but jobs will not be high paying but for a few.
Of course this is all speculation. Jobs we can't imagine will certainly become more common.
This article is interesting because it raises some points I had not seen before concerning income inequality.
Who is the 1% and why?
http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/social-mobility-memos/posts/2016/03/25-make-elites-compete-why-one-percent-earn-so-much-rothwell
Are the 1% that much smarter?
There is no evidence to support the idea that the top 1 percent consists mostly of people of “exceptional talent.” In fact, there is quite a bit of evidence to the contrary.
Which industries are "overpaid"?
the “gratuitous pay” premium in certain industries has increased dramatically since 1980. Workers in securities and investment saw their excess pay rise from 41 percent to 60 percent between 1980 and 2013. Legal services went from 27 percent to 37 percent. Hospitals went from 21 percent to 39 percent. Meanwhile, those working in eating and drinking establishments consistently hovered around negative 20 percent:
Where are the 1% working?
Top answer: doctor’s offices. No industry has more top earners than physicians’ offices, with 7.2 percent. Hospitals are home to 7 percent. Legal services and securities and financial investments industries account for another 7 and 6 percent, respectively. Real estate, dentistry, and banking provide a large number, too:
Where are the rich favored over the middle class?
A hedge fund is a loose term referring to an investment portfolio that is less regulated than other funds, because only very rich individuals or approved institutions (accredited investors or qualified purchasers) can participate in it. This regulatory distinction allows hedge funds to take more risk, borrowing levels of money that greatly exceed their assets (and avoid many onerous reporting requirements). These regulatory advantages have allowed hedge funds to consistently outperform stocks and other assets by roughly 2 percentage points each year.
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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Mar 27, 2016 - 07:45am PT
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Mar 27, 2016 - 08:09am PT
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No. 1 sign of a libertarian
Complete Denial of Scientific information that the propaganda machine churns out
Evolution, speciation, extinction, and Human caused Climate Change
Gun safety, tax rates, the role of government
Why would they deny these specific scientific research conclusions?
Because moneyed interests have specifically worked to change the minds of normally ration people.
No educated denies evolution except on religious grounds to make their God creator of all like their book says, big money rides on keeping a flock of church goers, book sales, schools, colleges, their authoritarian control over the willing
No educated person denies climate change that hasn't bought into the climate change denial bull crap put out by fossil fuel groups
Trillions of dollars are at stake for them
The same folks that sold us the line about cigarettes are safe are doing the AGW denial scam, and making big bucks.
What can you call people that fall for this kind of stuff every time?
Libertarians?
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
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Mar 27, 2016 - 08:18am PT
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I sent in the first political contribution of my life yesterday......$27.00 to keep the Bern going.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Mar 27, 2016 - 08:19am PT
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Ocean Acidification
Oh, now you're not a speciesist, are you? For SHAME!
The fact that some species die off is not a "bad"! It's been happening forever, coupled with the emergence of new ones.
The fact that WE like the oceans with the PH they have doesn't mean that it's "bad" for them to change.
Let's not be so species-centric in our thinking! New species galore! Bring it!
MB1
'Speciesism' is the idea that being human is a good enough reason for human animals to have greater moral rights than non-human animals. ...a prejudice or bias in favour of the interests of members of one's own species and against those of members of other species.
New species Galore???
Where will these new species come from?
Will god create them?
Please elaborate
or our we going to have to wait a couple mill to get things back from an insect and jellyfish takeover, is that what your saying?
Scientific research says that it will very disruptive, cataclysmic if things don't change.
It's being called the "Holocene extinction"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction
You should read up on it
Or will God save us, or some?
If you Google climate change caused deaths you get this
Obama Is Right: Climate Change Kills More People Than Terrorism
By Rebecca Leber
February 11, 2015
https://newrepublic.com/article/121032/map-climate-change-kills-more-people-worldwide-terrorism
In an interview with Vox this week, President Barack Obama said the media “absolutely” overstates the risk of terrorism, when climate change and epidemics affect far more people. White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest elaborated on Obama’s remarks on Tuesday, saying that “[t]here are many more people on an annual basis who have to confront the impact of climate change or the spread of a disease” than have to face terrorism.
Twenty governments commissioned an independent report in 2012 from the group DARA International to study the human and economic costs of climate change. It linked 400,000 deaths worldwide to climate change each year, projecting deaths to increase to over 600,000 per year by 2030.
MB1 and many more of these libertarians are what skeptics call "anti-science" authoritarian followers
It's like a cult member, they only accept information from their select cult leaders, and the cult leaders say that science is Wrong.
And all those liberal ideas about the environment are totally commie, green on the outside and red in the Center.
I do agree about some of his other issues
No Right Wing Republican or libertarian ruled Government will ever fix these problems, if fact they caused them, so obviously we have to vote them out to start any changes for the better.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Mar 27, 2016 - 08:20am PT
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McHale's Navy writes:
"I sent in the first political contribution of my life yesterday......$27.00 to keep the Bern going."
I don't ever want to hear you complain that there's too much money in politics, now that you're part of that problem.
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
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Mar 27, 2016 - 08:23am PT
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LOL! It was Berning a hole in my pocket! At least you know where that f*#king money came from.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Mar 27, 2016 - 08:43am PT
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Good One Mchale.
People are People too.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Mar 27, 2016 - 08:47am PT
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McHale, yeehaw!!!
I spent most of my life avoiding politics because it's just too painful to care and be on the losing side of elections. But like love, you have to be willing to put yourself out there, be willing to get hurt, to open the possibility of making your world closer to your vision. If we all cower in hopelessness, give up our small individual power that collectively forms the mightiest power, then we deserve the world we make.
Bern on!!!
And then let's kick some dysfunctional Congressional ass!
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Norton
Social climber
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Mar 27, 2016 - 08:55am PT
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No educated person denies climate change
Well, they do if they are too lazy to google search it and read
And so some demand others "prove" the consequences to them
Others just like the attention they get by pretending to be ignorant?
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Mar 27, 2016 - 09:05am PT
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We spend trillions to fight terrorism
When are we going to spend trillions to mitigate Global Climate Change?
In fact, GCC is going to make terrorism worse
Climate Change Report Outlines Perils for U.S. Military
WASHINGTON — Climate change is accelerating, and it will place unparalleled strains on American military and intelligence agencies in coming years by causing ever more disruptive events around the globe, the nation’s top scientific research group said in a report issued Friday.
The group, the National Research Council, says in a study commissioned by the C.I.A. and other intelligence agencies that clusters of apparently unrelated events exacerbated by a warming climate will create more frequent but unpredictable crises in water supplies, food markets, energy supply chains and public health systems.
Hurricane Sandy provided a foretaste of what can be expected more often in the near future, the report’s lead author, John D. Steinbruner, said in an interview.
“humans are pouring carbon dioxide and other climate-altering gases into the atmosphere at a rate never before seen. We know there will have to be major climatic adjustments — there’s no uncertainty about that — but we just don’t know the details,” he said. “We do know they will be big.”
Climate-driven crises could lead to internal instability or international conflict and might force the United States to provide humanitarian assistance or, in some cases, military force to protect vital energy, economic or other interests, the study said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/10/science/earth/climate-change-report-outlines-perils-for-us-military.html?_r=0
Obama Is Right: Climate Change Kills More People Than Terrorism
By Rebecca Leber
February 11, 2015
https://newrepublic.com/article/121032/map-climate-change-kills-more-people-worldwide-terrorism
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Mar 27, 2016 - 09:13am PT
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I should have used the terms "properly well educated"
Some well educated people get through their education with out the understanding of how to assimilate facts, and how to interpret misinformation properly.
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tuolumne_tradster
Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
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Mar 27, 2016 - 09:15am PT
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While we're at it lets praise this brave woman Tulsi Gabbard who resigned her position as vice-chariwoman of the DNC to feel the Bern...
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Mar 27, 2016 - 09:23am PT
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When are we going to spend trillions to mitigate Global Climate Change?
(Wearing my jaded hat): When we have anti-climate-change technology companies with lobbyists and super-PACs.
Taking that hat off...
+1 for Tulsi. There's hope for our future after Bernie.
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Aya K
Trad climber
Boulder, CO!
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Mar 27, 2016 - 10:53am PT
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I love that Bernie swept three states yesterday by huge margins, and when I turned on CNN this morning it was literally an hour of them talking about does Donald Trump get too much media coverage; why do we let him play us like this; how did Donald Trump become the frontrunner; What if he doesn't get the delegates he needs ad nauseum.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Mar 27, 2016 - 11:47am PT
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It's that f*#king simple.
Hey, come on, HighDesert. It really IS "that f*#king simple" to take 15% off of greenhouse gasses (particularly the worst ones) with one "f*#king simple" lifestyle change that would make everybody healthier anyway!
No, instead everybody will continue with their, as you call them, "bullshit excuses" and rush to "fix" things that just don't happen to affect THEIR lifestyle.
See, I'm not skeptical about climate change. I just don't buy the "bad" part nor the capacity of governments to do anything about it. If it's really the most pressing crisis facing us as a nation, then this government should MANDATE vegetarianism (among other sweeping and draconian changes).
Since the USA is the biggest meat consumer per capita, that would have sweepingly "positive" effects in two ways: 1) directly reduce the demand for and consumption of meat, which would have direct and almost immediate effects on reducing greenhouse gasses (not to mention significant national health improvements); 2) very quickly reduce the demand for yet more rain forest being converted to cattle ranch land.
The same "drop in the bucket" and "government shouldn't impose THAT sort of mandate" mentality is why I have NO respect for the pundits who want "something" to be done, just not anything that's really going to impinge directly on their chosen lifestyle.
So, I'm a skeptic of a different order.
Oh, and the "problem" of lots of species dying out only to take millions of years to "come back" after we're gone... so what? When you're a species, sh|t happens. Adapt or die: That's the universal truth. The corollary is: Whatever.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Mar 27, 2016 - 11:57am PT
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...so what?
Exactly right. Runaway human population, habitat destruction and species extinction are 'just happening'. The planet could give a rat's ass - it's always trending towards equilibrium and DNA is always seeking optimal expression for whatever the conditions are at hand.
These issues are human 'lifestyle' issues and choices. At the moment we are making very bad choices for our species future. And climate change and nuclear war are the least of our worries. Given the current rate mammalian habitats and species are collapsing, sooner rather than later there's going to be serious pathogenic blowback by something nasty that isn't going to simply lay down and die with it's current mammalian host.
And that risk is compounded by the fact that in industrialized societies the microbiome basis for our immune systems has narrowed in its own species profile thus affording us far less protection from infection and disease than cultures living closer to the earth.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Mar 27, 2016 - 01:08pm PT
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So, what happens when we spend the trillions of dollars on mitigating the assumed causes of climate change only to find out that it doesn't do a lick of good? And people come to grips with the fact that our planet has been heating up and cooling down since its inception?
Do you guys have the next "#1 most pressing urgent issue facing the country" lined up already or are you figuring this one will take us a while to work through so you have some time to find a new boogeyman?
It would take someone truly uneducated to not realize that the climate on our planet is changing. But it takes someone truly retarded to spend trillions of dollars playing "Go Fish" over what might make a difference.
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