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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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It's awesome how you keep coming back anyway Werner, love ya man.
While most observers and commentators have focused on Bundy’s recent statements on race, something far more problematic drives the standoff. Bundy, his family, and many of his supporters are part of the modern day Sovereign Movement, a loosely-knit group that subscribes to a complex system of bizarre legal theories. They believe that the current U.S. Government is an illegitimate sham, and, in the most extreme situations, they are willing to resort to violence when the courts and government agents don’t agree with their schemes.
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thebravecowboy
climber
in the face of the fury of the funk
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Motorized-use enthusiasts in Monticello, UT, are taking a page from Bundy & co.
"Phil Lyman, San Juan County Commissioner, plans on May 8 to lead dozens of offroad vehicles into Recapture Canyon, near Blanding, which is closed by BLM to motorized use in order to protect archaeological sites. In 2009, an illegal route was built by motorized users in Recapture Canyon, severely damaging archaeological sites...."
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http://www.moabsunnews.com/opinion/article_71bf4306-d043-11e3-a7e1-0017a43b2370.html
Wait a damn minnit here though: if the guvmint of san juan county is fighting the federal guvmint of san juan county, wunnit be like a snake eating its own tail and shettin' out some anarchistic goo? a reptilian centipede, if you wull?
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John M
climber
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There's only one guy here having anything to do with the subject matter of this thread.
I plead gross stupidity and ignorance your honor and humbly ask you to identify this lone subject.
I really don't know who you are talking about.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Dingus, show them the big red reset button.
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thebravecowboy
climber
in the face of the fury of the funk
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He's talking about himself, John (I think (?))....
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John M
climber
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He's talking about himself, John (I think (?))….
Don't think so.. Werner doesn't roll that way, though He definitely will tweak a persons hissy fit button. haha…
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Or an oCOWpie MOOvement.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Ron hasn't answered the question of is he part of the sovereign citizen "movement."
Don't hold your breath.
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John M
climber
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just realized that the red pill/ blue pill choice of the matrix is a subtle reinforcer of the image that the red state folks are willing to face reality ( never depend on the gov ) whereas blue state folks want illusion ( always depend the gov )
just found that interesting while pondering Dingus' red reset button. ( War is necessary, as the red staters would have us believe)
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Thanks Dingus, thumbs up!
The sovereign kooks don't really want to take on the federal gov't. There's something about actual war that is just so unpleasant.
And there's something about the Big Red Reset Button, sworn to uphold the constitution and obey the presidents orders, that would be so unpleasant to do actual war against.
Edit: John, the red staters depend on the big bad gov't as much as the rest of us, but they'll never admit it because they're FREE Gdamnit!
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Well I sure I hope he completes the paperwork.
In triplicate.
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John M
climber
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I'm aware of that Bruce. They believe that they see the truth, but mostly I believe that they are deceived as to how much truth that they have. Line them up and send them off to war. The dyed in the wool hardliners come back from war still believing in the glory of it.
The ones I trust are the ones that say "damn, I wonder if there was a way to avoid getting our country into that sh#t show". I believe in service to ones country and have great respect for that, but sometimes service also means saying no to feeding the war machine.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Thanks to the Southern Poverty Law Center
Who know quite a bit about big bad government whacking innocent protesters over the head
AND about right wing racist whackos killing people.
The lower video on the page, obviously taken by a Bundyite (note the passive/aggressive narrative) is the most complete vid I've seen of the first dustup with the BLM. The BLM with dogs and tasers vs Bundyites where Ammon Bundy got tasered and I think his aunt got "tackled, pushed down, whatever" but ended up on the ground (unharmed)
http://splcenter.org/blog/2014/04/10/anti-government-patriots-gather-near-scene-of-nevada-ranchers-dispute-over-cattle-grazing-rights/
There is no video I've found showing the woman falling to the ground. So it's anyone's guess how violent it was.
More importantly it shows the nature of the confrontation. About 2/3 way through a big guy in an oranges shirt walks right into the group of BLM agents with dogs. Yes, the dogs get pretty darned aggro as they are trained to do. But the BLM restrain them. No one gets bitten (no one has claimed to be bitten). So poor ole Ammon Blundy got tasered? If it wasn't deliberately provoking it he's as stupid as his father.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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The sovereign kooks don't really want to take on the federal gov't don't be so sure. There's always a suicidal element to fanaticism.
Like the whacko in Ohio earlier this year. Cops came to serve an arrest warrant. He came out of his house firing and got a bullet through the head. D'oh!
Now I know where dear Ron gets his nonsense and aggro spew. Thanks again to SPLC. I'd never heard of this Santilli whacko. He as much as incites violence near the end beginning about 7:30.
Interview with Blundy:
Nevada Rancher’s Interview With Volatile Talk Show Host Reveals His ‘Patriot’ Movement Leanings http://www.splcenter.org/blog/topics/antigovernment/page/2/
Blundy "I will do whatever it takes....." Santilli "to defend your constitutional rights"
Santilli takes the credit for rousing the "militias".
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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more Santilli, post Blundy interview rant
As he wrapped up the rant, Santilli became even more explicitly violent, characterizing the Nevada showdown as a “fight to the death”:
Is it time now, at this point in time – if this is not THE issue, right now! Where we stand and fight to the absolute, and I say, death! There is no other option! The federal government must get out of the state of Nevada, with respect to that 600,000-acre ranch – they must leave. We want that to be done peacefully. If they don’t want it to happen peacefully, it is gonna be by their choice.
Santilli’s solution: Militiamen and “patriots” need to bring their guns:
Ladies and gentlemen, when I say, I’m calling upon every single American anywhere in the vicinity of Clark County, pool your money together, fill up your gas cans, get your cameras. If you’re in Nevada and you can legally carry, get weapons out there, OK? We’re going to stand and fight in Clark County, Nevada! They will leave or else! SPLC
http://www.splcenter.org/blog/topics/antigovernment/page/2/
Now I know how/why the 1,000 or so (including women and children) "militias" showed up to confront the BLM. It has very little to do with puppet Bundy
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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My Dad and father-in-law never talked about WW2, it wasn't a pleasant experience for them. You couldn't pull it out of them. They kept it all inside. They didn't want to relive any of it.
These wanna-be like that as#@&%e sniper on the bridge need a quick, swift kick to the nuts. They make me ill.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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These wanna-be like that as#@&%e sniper on the bridge need a quick, swift kick to the nuts. They make me ill.
Good chance that the "as#@&%e sniper" is a government agent.
If he isn't, and he's still walking around freely, I really wonder about you all who think the gov did such a great job there.
(I suppose yet another possibility is somehow the picture was taken out of context, but I'm having hard time seeing that.)
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thebravecowboy
climber
in the face of the fury of the funk
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does anyone really think that the gov did a "great job" here?
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TradEddie
Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
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If he isn't, and he's still walking around freely, I really wonder about you all who think the gov did such a great job there.
I certainly think they didn't do a good job - yet.
The decision to defuse the standoff peacefully was a good one IMHO, but can also be viewed as giving in to threats of violence (i.e. terrorism). Unless some very concrete action is taken soon, the militia will be emboldened by this perceived "success".
TE
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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I think the gov't did just fine.
They have tried for years and years to get this clown to comply peacefully.
Let's face it, the BLM isn't in the biz of armed confrontation.
The fact that they backed out without any hillbillies getting shot is a testament to their restraint.
That doesn't make Timothy McBundy right, not by a long shot.
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