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mynameismud
climber
backseat
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Mar 25, 2016 - 03:11pm PT
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I find it difficult to take seriously someone that considers climate change to be the number one threat our country faces.
Just wait a few years.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Mar 25, 2016 - 03:16pm PT
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Thanks for reinforcing my point. I so love when that happens.
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Mar 25, 2016 - 03:22pm PT
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I find it difficult to take seriously someone that considers climate change to be the number one threat our country faces.
Right. He should have said "the number one threat the planet faces."
Curt
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Mar 25, 2016 - 03:32pm PT
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The middle east is a big threat and it is not at all clear what to do about it.
Climate change is the biggest threat that has a relatively straight forward solution.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Mar 25, 2016 - 03:41pm PT
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Climate change is the biggest threat that has a relatively straight forward solution.
Do tell.
No, I mean, seriously: DO tell. What's this "straightforward solution?"
Oh, I'd also love to hear the nature of the "threat." Exactly what baleful effects are we all going to "endure" if we don't get this "straightforward solution" going asap?
Edit: We're coming off of an ice age! What's not to like?
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Mar 25, 2016 - 04:03pm PT
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Oh, I'd also love to hear the nature of the "threat." Exactly what baleful effects are we all going to "endure" if we don't get this "straightforward solution" going asap?
Well, most of Florida will be under water--but, because they can't figure out how to vote, most people probably won't have a problem with that.
Curt
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Mar 25, 2016 - 04:13pm PT
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And to think some of you admonish the right for using fear as a motivator. Shameful.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Mar 25, 2016 - 04:25pm PT
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Escsopeta...Most of the right"s fear, not all of it , is based on propaganda and fantasy...IE...God will heal nature or Katrina was God's way of punishing gay lifestyle...Climate change is based on science and documented observation...I love it when your fear of science and reality results in chidy behavior ...who's the real fear monger...?
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Mar 25, 2016 - 04:51pm PT
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Chidy?
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Mar 25, 2016 - 04:53pm PT
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I think I'll wait for the consensus response to MB1's request. Because I'm DYING to hear about this straightforward solution to global warming.
This is gonna be good....
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Mar 25, 2016 - 04:58pm PT
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Human population growth and habitat destruction are a more pressing problem and on a shorter timeline. Both are serious challenges, I suspect we will terminally suck at dealing with them as a species.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Mar 25, 2016 - 05:10pm PT
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I don't know why you're "paging" me with that article. It's just another of the perpetually misguided missives that miss the primary point. As you'll remember, I explicitly said that her handling of classified materials is not the primary point I think is compelling. So, your "pager" flew right by me, as it's not addressing my points at all.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Mar 25, 2016 - 05:15pm PT
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Well, most of Florida will be under water
I guess that some subset of people aren't going to like some effects. But that's going to be true whether there's a warming or cooling trend. Some areas will become less habitable, however, much of the Earth will become more habitable.
Ironically, as more of the Earth becomes arable, we'll be better able to feed the increasing population. Oh, and more trees will grow, which offsets greenhouse gasses, providing what may well prove to be a self-limiter to increased temps.
Again, please tell me all about how globally "bad" this warming trend is going to be. I don't mean particular pockets of people that are going to have to move (as did much of mankind during the ice age). Movement is not in itself a BAD. Tell me about the REAL bad that simply must be stopped at all costs!
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Mar 25, 2016 - 05:21pm PT
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I'm more interested in this "simple solution". Pray tell how you are going to alter the natural climate transition of the earth?
Let me guess, we should cut out the hairspray and freon some more? Lol
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Degaine
climber
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Mar 26, 2016 - 02:32am PT
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Escopeta wrote:
You lost me at:
The care providers that are officially government employees are often ER docs or permanent hospital staff.
Look around at government employees on any given day. Are those the people you want working on you in the ER?
Not offering a profit motive to healthcare means there is no motive to care beyond the smattering of people who are in healthcare simply on the strength of compassion. Which is noble, but not an indicator of good care.
Government subsidized healthcare is just that, a subsidy. You are taking money from someone, somewhere and giving it to another person.
It's not inherently an awful thought, but at least be honest enough with yourself to call it what it is rather than trying to bother with all these euphemistic names that try to make it sound like its something else entirely.
Escopeta,
I'm not surprised that you're lost. In the above you fail to even show the most basic understanding of healthcare systems and modern behavioral economic theory 101.
First, just look at cost to outcomes in the US versus the countries I mentioned: France, Germany, Japan, and Switzerland. (I'll save you some of the foot work: all four have far superior outcomes than the US at one-half to one-third the cost).
Second, universal healthcare does not automatically mean "all public": Japan has a primarily private, but heavily regulated, healthcare system. The per person cost is one-third of that in the USA and the country has far better outcomes.
Third, people in the US are getting bilked by the healthcare industry: insurers, providers, and pharmaceutical companies alike. Some practices are clearly fraud but not yet illegal. Example: there are docs with shares in imaging centers that- big f*#king surprise - seem to send a lot of their patients for unnecessary MRI and other imaging exams.
As far as economics goes, incentives does not automatically equal money. That written, what makes you think that ER docs in France don't make a good living? They're salaried employees, that's all. I know plenty of very talented specialists at educational hospitals (some public) in the US that recognized as being top in their field, make an outstanding living, but prefer to be salaried instead of having to deal with the fee for service billing quagmire of the US healthcare system.
You've bought hook line and sinker into the modern Republican party mantra that government is bad except that I can't recall one Republican president or congress that wasn't for in some way shape or form a very active and interventionist federal government.
All that written, thanks for taking the time to reply to my first post.
Cheers.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Mar 26, 2016 - 05:40am PT
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Dagne,
Like so many others, your rhetoric is tuned in to oppose the Republican party. And you can't even do that well.
When was the last time a Republican candidate even gave lip service to the concept of small government? You'd have to go a long ways back to find even an homage to small government much less action in that regard from the elephants.
The claim that government-run ANYTHING will result in unicorns farting rainbow skittles is admirable but totally fantasy. And usually results in money flying out of my pockets.
The current web of government regulations is a major contributor to the escalating costs and you want to just add more?
What on earth does a salaried ER doctor have to do with this discussion and I'm wondering if your per-person cost estimates from Japan include the costs of the taxpayers that fund and prop up the system? I bet if you include that, the per person cost might be different.
In the end, the question is whether or not you think the government should be involved in the healthcare business. I do not.
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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Mar 26, 2016 - 07:13am PT
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It's normal to exaggerate differences between candidates during an election. Even if the candidates are friends and know in private that they are in agreement on most of the issues that an elected official will likely face. Such is the case between Bernie and Hillary.
You can rail all day long here about it, but the fact is that if Hillary hangs on the with the nomination she will have done so because a majority of voters preferred her.
There will be a natural process between June and November of reconciliation. Bernie supporters, the vast majority, will vote for her given the choice. That's all that matters, really.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/03/25/how-to-accept-hillary-clinton-as-a-bernie-sanders-fan.html
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Mar 26, 2016 - 03:11pm PT
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madbolter asked No, I mean, seriously: DO tell. What's this "straightforward solution?"
Cut CO2 and methane emissions. It's that f*#king simple. The complex part is all the bullshit we make up because we don't want to do it.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Mar 26, 2016 - 04:18pm PT
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Japan has a primarily private, but heavily regulated, healthcare system. The per person cost is one-third of that in the USA and the country has far better outcomes.
Spot on! Private but heavily-regulated is the way in virtually every industry. I'm seriously in agreement with you.
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