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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Apr 16, 2009 - 05:28pm PT
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"The National Security Agency intercepted Americans' e-mails and phone calls in recent months on a scale that went beyond limits set by Congress last year, The New York Times reported on Wednesday."
note that this is from the nyt--that rightwing rag...and W's administration NEVER violated any "limits set by congress"
"the Times said the NSA had engaged in "'over-collection' of domestic communications of Americans."'
obama's nsa tapped "domestic communications"...the ONLY thing W's administration was accused of was tapping calls coming into the country from OUTSIDE the country and from sources known to have connections with terrorist organizations
"The agency also tried to wiretap a member of Congress without a warrant"
was W's nsa ever accused of this?
and the money quote:
"Domestic eavesdropping has been a contentious issue since 2005, when the Times revealed that for years following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, the NSA intercepted international phone conversations and e-mails involving U.S. citizens without a warrant."
let me repeat:
"NSA intercepted international phone conversations and e-mails"
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 16, 2009 - 05:52pm PT
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Okay, let me repeat too:
"'Director of National Intelligence Dennis C. Blair admitted Thursday that the NSA made mistakes and intercepted the wrong communications. But he emphasized the number of errors is small to the overall collection efforts and that each error is investigated, leading to corrective measures to prevent reoccurrences.'
When did the Bush Administration ever admit that it wrongly engaged in these kinds of activities?"
I didn't say the Obama Admin didn't blow it.
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just passing thru
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2009 - 05:58pm PT
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So whenever the Obama administration sez "My bad"
"Well, Bush..." will be the left's comeback?
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 16, 2009 - 05:59pm PT
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You're right, better to deny and lie and never correct the problem. Brilliant guys.
Edit: so let's talk about Obama instead of Bush then. I'm glad Obama is upfront about this mistake.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Apr 16, 2009 - 06:02pm PT
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fellas,
these dupes pull you into their small, small world.
try to resist.
these 'men', ie skippy, worm, just passing thru, know that their money is their substance.
hence their every thought revolves around it. their every motion pivots on the notion. they fear, utterly fear losing it.
they realize, with trepedation, that without their artificial substance, they will blow away in the wind, temporarily interrupting the eternal.
captilism has made quick work of them. they've subscibed religiously to the concept, losing sight of the rest of reality.
sad loss. those folks. but let them go. don't try to argue them back into real 'livlihood.'
onward will i, and we go, without them, into a reality where money plays a role, yes. but only a cameo part of our bigger production.
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just passing thru
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2009 - 06:21pm PT
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Just chalk it up as another broken campaign promise:
"WASHINGTON - The National Security Agency intercepted private e-mail messages and phone calls of Americans in recent months on a scale that went beyond the broad legal limits established by Congress last year, government officials said in recent interviews.
Several intelligence officials, as well as lawyers briefed about the matter, said the N.S.A. had been engaged in “overcollection” of domestic communications of Americans. They described the practice as significant and systemic, although one official said it was believed to have been unintentional."
"The questions may not be settled yet. Intelligence officials say they are still examining the scope of the N.S.A. practices, and Congressional investigators say they hope to determine if any violations of Americans’ privacy occurred. It is not clear to what extent the agency may have actively listened in on conversations or read e-mail messages of Americans without proper court authority, rather than simply obtained access to them."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30238492/
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Apr 16, 2009 - 07:15pm PT
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"When did the Bush Administration ever admit that it wrongly engaged in these kinds of activities?"
when did the bush administration ever intercept domestic calls and emails? when did the bush administration ever spy on a member of congress?
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 16, 2009 - 08:17pm PT
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I forget, Bush never made any mistakes with respect to abusing power.
And, I remind you that until you admit a mistake, you can't fix it.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Apr 17, 2009 - 02:16pm PT
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Guys guys if only the republicans had been in charge none of this would have happened.
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rincon
Trad climber
SoCal
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Apr 17, 2009 - 02:50pm PT
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McCain / Palin...wooohooo! The GOP ran two of the worlds biggest losers for their Presidential ticket, and that helped Obama win, fact.
McCain / Palin, the best the GOP had to offer...and now the friggin losers are complaining...hahahahah!!!!
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Apr 20, 2009 - 09:27am PT
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ok, i can understand the smartest man to ever run for president might get confused about european history...europe's been around a long time...but america's less than 250 years old; he should be able to grasp at least that much...since he grew up in this country...and wants to lead this country
"The region's protectionists can be counted on one hand, and they just happen to be the same countries trying to ruin their own democracies — among them Venezuela, whose de facto dictator, Hugo Chavez, declared at the last summit in 2005 he would "bury" free trade of the Americas. With Obama failing to lead, he's effectively handing Chavez the leadership, as well as a victory.
He's also giving Cuba a victory, unilaterally loosening rules for remittances to the island, providing the bankrupt Castro dictatorship with an economic lifeline as well as a fresh pool of visitors to spy on, blackmail and potentially recruit.
Instead of taking a principled stance, Obama seems to be following the example of other countries in the region. The problem is that in letting the summit focus on his unrequited overture to Cuba, a non-democracy that isn't even allowed to take part, he dumbs down the standards of democracy. That's not leading.
Perhaps this lack of leadership is based on ignorance of history. Obama told CNN En Espanol: "There has always been a tradition of concern that the United States has been heavy-handed when it comes to foreign policy in Latin America. And that's not something that just arose during the Bush administration. That's something that dates back to the Monroe Doctrine and a long history of U.S. involvement in Latin America."
Some history: President Bush was the first U.S. leader in decades to launch no military action on a Latin country. Not very "heavy handed." In fact, his immigration plan showed he was a softie.
Meanwhile, the Monroe Doctrine was declared by President Monroe to protect Latin America's infant democracies from European takeover, a real prospect in 1823. Obama's double apology for that as Iran and Russia erect bases in the region is a bad signal to the region's real democracies — and comfort for our foes.
Right now, the hemisphere's definition of democracy is growing hazier as protectionism rises. The U.S. could lead the region on a better course, but Obama seems more interested in adulation.
What a shame that it's now left to Canada to do the heavy lifting on the actions that will genuinely advance peace and prosperity in our global neighborhood."
here's the full article: http://www.ibdeditorial.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=324863352475181
well, what do you expect from someone who thinks there are 57 states and that turkey (founded in 1923) is an older nation than america (founded in 1776)?
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 20, 2009 - 09:32am PT
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Thanks to the Cuban embargo, Cuba became a democracy and the Castros are no longer in power. It has been a smashing success.
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jstan
climber
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Apr 20, 2009 - 10:24am PT
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http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/washingtondc/la-na-obama-presidency19-2009apr19,0,1035963.story
“On the last Friday in March, President Obama summoned leaders of the banking industry to the White House, where they gathered around a mahogany table in the State Dining Room, site of many a feast. On this day there was not a piece of fruit nor can of soda in sight. At each place was a glass of water. No ice. No refills.
The president's message was hard and crusty as a slab of day-old bread.
He urged the bankers to view corporate excess through the eyes of Americans who are belt-tightening their way through the recession. Obama mentioned the carpet stains in the Oval Office, to make a frugal comparison with $1-million suites decorated with $8,000 trash cans.
The corporate chieftains protested, citing the specialization of their field and the need to pay handsomely to avoid a brain drain. Obama cut them off: "Be careful how you make those statements, gentlemen. The public isn't buying that. My administration is the only thing between you and the pitchforks."
Direct, assertive and utterly self-assured, Obama has used his broad popularity, a driving ambition and a sweeping agenda to move America in a wholly new direction.”
END OF EXCERPT
Here Obama created an image to get his point across. I can't think of a President since Truman who did this.
In response to the above-
After the War the Soviet Union invaded the eastern European countries and set up communist states. How would you say that worked out - in the long pull?
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Apr 20, 2009 - 10:37am PT
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oh, beautiful...obama's own fiscal responsibility is on full display today and should serve as an excellent example for those greedy corporate types...obama is demanding $100 million in total cuts from all of his agencies...that amounts to
wait for it...
.0029% of the budget!!!
yes, just call him the anti-scrooge
"My administration is the only thing between you and the pitchforks."
Direct, assertive and utterly self-assured, Obama has used his broad popularity, a driving ambition and a sweeping agenda to move America in a wholly new direction."
so noble of him, especially since he helped stoke the anger even AFTER he knew that aig execs had received death threats against their children...and after he KNEW his own treasury sec had made sure the aig bonuses were protected by the so-called stimulus bill
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jstan
climber
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Apr 20, 2009 - 10:39am PT
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Truman did not face the particular disaster that Obama faced. You have no way of knowing what Truman would have done.
EDIT:
I will give the Bush administration credit for being sensitive. In the event one of Bush's prisoners drowned during water boarding- they were prepared to do a tracheotomy so they might live.
Worm you are probably correct that Obama is not sensitive to the AIG executives. Had he been more sensitive he would have altered national policy so that there might possibly be no more telephone threats.
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jstan
climber
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Apr 20, 2009 - 10:59am PT
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Skip:
Worse or better is not the issue. The challenges were different and so the responses have to be different.
We have to get out of the peculiar American Comparative Mindset. Without realizing it we phrase everything in comparative terms. Not helpful.
Truman nationalized the steel industry in 1952. At that time there was not a globalized commerce for steel. We used our own steel and we needed it for both internal and external reasons. So he nationalized an industry to break a union.
These are tough decisions and that is why Presidents make the big bucks.
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