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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Nov 13, 2018 - 02:11pm PT
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Trump is trying to manipulate the vote count in Florida. If either of the Rs lose, he is going to try and convince his base that there was fraud.
This is how democracy dies of a thousand cuts.
I am surprised his call for an end to the recount didn't get more coverage. I think it looms as one of his larger abuses of power in terms of it's potential harmful effects.
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dirtbag
climber
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Nov 13, 2018 - 02:27pm PT
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^^^he’s warming up for the 2020 election.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Nov 13, 2018 - 02:27pm PT
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Ironic how the right wing gave Obama so much grief for making a negative comment about the service man who murdered an entire family in Iraq while he was off-duty. They said it prejudiced the mans trial. wow! Trump is so much beyond that, but not a peep out if the right wingers on how inappropriate it is to have the president weigh in on the business of other branches of the government.
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Jim Clipper
climber
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Nov 13, 2018 - 02:34pm PT
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It’s better to not live or die for ideas.
No. Not when some are denied freedom.
And,
Yep, if you live or are willing to die for an idea, you are a fanatic.
No. If fanatic is used as a perjorative, you should maybe look at the perspectives of the user and the labeled. If you had said, "If you are willing to kill or do harm for an idea...", your argument may make me more agreeable.
Jerzy Popieluszko, Stephen Bikaw, Marlow's post.
With Trump, our war in the Mid East, inattention to global warming, we may have been shaken back into history.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Nov 13, 2018 - 02:34pm PT
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This is how a Republic dies of a thousand cuts.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Nov 13, 2018 - 03:39pm PT
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
Nov 13, 2018 - 02:27pm PT
Ironic how the right wing gave Obama so much grief for making a negative comment about the service man who murdered an entire family in Iraq while he was off-duty. They said it prejudiced the mans trial.
What are you talking about?
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dirtbag
climber
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Nov 13, 2018 - 04:11pm PT
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I also converted to atheism.
Those damned atheists.
They knock on your door...
They harass you at airports...
They promise you drugs and orgies...
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 13, 2018 - 04:30pm PT
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dirtbag! Re your comment:
Those damned atheists.
They knock on your door...
They harass you at airports...
They promise you drugs and orgies...
Damn! All I ever got knocking on my door in Idaho was jehovah's Witlesses & Mormons, who didn't sing.
In my 20's, I started to warm-up to a gud-looking jehovah's Witless girl who had called on me twice. Luckily, I was hosting a more-outspoken friend for a few days & the jehovah's Witless girl visited again while he was home & I wasn't.
My friend Terry sternly warned her off & told her to never-ever visit again. Thank you Terry.
A married South-Idaho friend made the mistake of being nice to some Mormon missionaries who put him on the "visit frequently" list. That ended when my friend's wife made a point of greeting some missionaries nude, when they knocked on the door.
Heidi shucks all those people away quite efficiently & still keeps her clothes on.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Nov 13, 2018 - 04:41pm PT
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
Nov 13, 2018 - 02:27pm PT
Ironic how the right wing gave Obama so much grief for making a negative comment about the service man who murdered an entire family in Iraq while he was off-duty. They said it prejudiced the mans trial.
What are you talking about?
it is about "unlawful command influence"
I was wrong about the case Obama was accused in, it would have been the Lawrence Hutchins case, in which Hutchin's patrol executed an Iraqi father of 11 children. Although I do not find reference online to the controversy re Obama's comments, I distinctly remember it because Hutchins was held locally at the brig on Camp Pendleton and the case generated a bit of local press (we still had the semblance of an actual newspaper back then). Sec. of the Navy Ray Mabus was also accused of unlawful influence, but on appeal the court found that his comments came after sentencing.
A court subsequently did find that Obama exercised unlawful command influence in the military sexual assault scandal with this portion of a speech. The court held that if found guilty the defendants in the case could not be given a BCD or dishonorable discharge.
https://www.stripes.com/judge-obama-sex-assault-comments-unlawful-command-influence-1.225974
“The bottom line is: I have no tolerance for this,” Obama said, according to an NBC News story submitted as evidence by defense attorneys in the sexual assault cases. ‘I expect consequences,” Obama added. “So I don’t just want more speeches or awareness programs or training, but ultimately folks look the other way. If we find out somebody’s engaging in this, they’ve got to be held accountable — prosecuted, stripped of their positions, court martialed, fired, dishonorably discharged. Period.”
The same principle applies to pending cases the justice Dept is handling. The president's attempt to influence pending cases is undue influence, no different that "unlawful commend influence". there is no statute prohibiting these sorts of comments, but Trumps commentary on pending cases would be evidence for a claim that the prosecutor was influenced by the President (his boss).
Trump has a long history of prejudging cases inappropriately. I suppose Trump believes he has the same First Amendment rights as the common man. Trump neeeds to keep his pie hole shut on issues before the courts, but he is incapable, this is an attack on our system of justice.
https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/his-own-words-presidents-attacks-courts
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Jim Clipper
climber
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Nov 13, 2018 - 05:16pm PT
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Moose. I agree in that I wish each of those 3 human beings I mentioned, should not have died for their ideas, but that's not the world we live in.
Do you have a perspective on the Velvet Revolution? Sometimes change comes quickly and irrevocably, however unwanted. If it comes slowly as a part of everyday life, the suffering less acute, is it remembered differently?
Truly, I respect your experience. One of my favorite encounters in Alaska, was meeting a Polish deck hand on a trawler. Built like a fireplug, he made it apparent that he would kick my ass if I left a fish hatch uncovered, but he did it in the nicest way. I think he knew I wouldn't, but the thought had to be shared. He would read his daughters kindergarten books after dinner, to teach himself English.
A lot of people from around the world, working for the meals, making the best of limited opportunities.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Nov 13, 2018 - 05:21pm PT
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Here is Worshington we had a 67.59% registered voter turnout. Thanks mail in ballots, no voting machines, lots of time to think about the issues, and no stamp required. This should be how every state holds elections; you can check online to see if your vote was counted, signatures required so no cheating, and a paper trail is there's a recount.
If I was running for President, which I might, I would make voting access, the right to vote, and gerrymandering major issues. Well, that and healthcare. And making wealthy people pay their fair share (I'm looking at you, Mr. No Pay Taxes for Ten Years Trump).
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Nov 13, 2018 - 05:38pm PT
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Jon Beck - Thanks for the clarification. I don't recall the case you discussed. I'm guessing criticism of Obama mostly involved those watching thew case. Not really a case of rightwing pundits showing hypocrisy vs Trump and his big mouth. But he does have a big mouth. And he sticks his foot in it more times in a month than most past Presidents did in a year.
Regarding the Mueller investigation, Trump's constant blather is excusable, considering it's primarily about him.
Looking forward to the next round of indictments.
-------------------------------
Mail-in ballots.
What a concept.
Safe.
Easy.
Thank you Washington State for showing us a better way.
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Jim Clipper
climber
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Nov 13, 2018 - 05:50pm PT
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ok. my last post. please have the last word, really
I remember that some people said they were brainwashed.
I don't believe they were zealots.
With the destruction that was surrounding them, I believe that some knew they would not be reincarnated...
Extreme.
I believe that this too was ahimsa.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 13, 2018 - 07:08pm PT
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The FBI reported today that hate crimes were up 17% in 2017, part of a rising trend for the last three years that makes them concerned.
It does strongly appear that Trump's frequent outbursts of hate & covert, & sometimes blatant support of right-wing haters, has empowered some of his base of bigots, racists, misogynists, homophobes, & those suffering Xenophobia, to start using violence against people from minorities.
From the N.Y. Times today:
Hate crime reports increased 17 percent last year from 2016, the F.B.I. said on Tuesday, rising for the third consecutive year as heated racial rhetoric and actions have come to dominate the news.
Of the more than 7,100 hate crimes reported last year, nearly three out of five were motivated by race and ethnicity, according to the annual report. Religion and sexual orientation were the other two primary motivators.
In addition to the tense political climate, the increase also points to a growing awareness among various law enforcement agencies of the importance of identifying and reporting hate crimes to the F.B.I.
Black people accounted for nearly half of hate crime victims last year, according to the F.B.I. Of those targeted based on religion, 58 percent were Jewish.
A man accused of fatally shooting 11 worshipers at a synagogue in Pittsburgh last month had taken to social media to accuse a Jewish organization that helps to resettle migrants of bringing “invaders” to “kill our people.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/13/us/hate-crimes-fbi-2017.html
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 15, 2018 - 07:49am PT
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Poor, Poor, Donald Trump. He is soooooo-wronged, he has to keep throwing fits about how innocent he is & what a bunch of evil arseholes the Mueller team is.
Does anyone still believe he's innocent?
FOX NEWS Trump says Mueller investigators 'have gone absolutely nuts,' are 'a disgrace to our Nation'
President Trump on Thursday ripped into Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s Russia investigation, accusing investigators of having “gone absolutely nuts” and saying they are “a disgrace” to the country.
“The inner workings of the Mueller investigation are a total mess. They have found no collusion and have gone absolutely nuts,” Trump tweeted. “They are screaming and shouting at people, horribly threatening them to come up with the answers they want. They are a disgrace to our Nation and don’t care how many lives the(y) ruin.”
He then focused his ire on Mueller, a former FBI director, who he accused of having conflicts of interest, though he did not elaborate on the accusation. Mueller served under both George W. Bush and Barack Obama.
“These are Angry People, including the highly conflicted Bob Mueller, who worked for Obama for 8 years. They won’t even look at all of the bad acts and crimes on the other side,” he said. “A TOTAL WITCH HUNT LIKE NO OTHER IN AMERICAN HISTORY!
The Associated Press reported this week that Trump advisers are concerned that Mueller has been stealthily compiling information and could soon issue new indictments (it has so far produced 32 criminal charges) or a highly critical final report.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-says-mueller-investigators-have-gone-absolutely-nuts-are-a-disgrace-to-our-nation/ar-BBPJYIN?li=BBnb7Kz&pfr=1
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dirtbag
climber
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Nov 15, 2018 - 07:51am PT
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^^^Is Trump a wee bit worried?
He should be.
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Jim Clipper
climber
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Nov 15, 2018 - 08:14am PT
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Just to say, I hope I didn't do anything to turn Lituya off. I remember someone saying who he is. Even if I'm mistaken, I believe it would still be a loss. Perspectives outside my own are no less valuable. Free civil discourse is unfortunately sometimes a privilege.
Again, maybe my confusion, but I remember a paper about plants, in distant mountains. Singular and tall, they either turned with, or faced the sun. Unusually, the authors included a local belief about people, the flowers? The paper was much richer for the perspective. It's a stretch to think he would know the paper specifically, but the perspective, no.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Nov 15, 2018 - 08:16am PT
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“The inner workings of the Mueller investigation are a total mess. They have found no collusion and have gone absolutely nuts,” Trump tweeted. “They are screaming and shouting at people, horribly threatening them to come up with the answers they want. They are a disgrace to our Nation and don’t care how many lives the(y) ruin.”
Project much Donnie?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Nov 15, 2018 - 08:33am PT
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Time to start looking at 2020.
Hillary Clinton will reinvent herself as a “liberal firebrand” and mount a third presidential bid in 2020, her longtime adviser Mark Penn predicted in an op-ed for the Wall Street Journal published Monday.
“Get ready for Hillary Clinton 4.0. More than 30 years in the making, this new version of Mrs. Clinton, when she runs for president in 2020, will come full circle—back to the universal-health-care-promoting progressive firebrand of 1994,” wrote Penn, who co-authored the op-ed with New York city council president Andrew Stein.
The former Secretary of State and twice-failed presidential candidate won’t “let a little thing like two stunning defeats stand in the way of her claim to the White House,” the pair wrote of Clinton’s resolve to defeat Trump in 2020.
Hillary 4.0?
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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