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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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May 30, 2017 - 04:37pm PT
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I like the idea of "some degree of accuracy."
Translated into the beliefs and words of one supertopian, "Jesus filled my gas tank"! You know, more or less, he did. Other than being a crock of sh#t, it's got some degree of accuracy! I mean, a human believes it, so ...
You can see for yourself that some people are small and some people are larger, so it stands to reason, with some degree of accuracy, that in the continuum of human size, someone exists who's large enough to hold the earth up while standing on that turtle's back! No wait, this was supposed to be about my huuuuuge consciousness.
Heck this believing stuff is easy.
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WBraun
climber
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May 30, 2017 - 04:50pm PT
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You are insane .....
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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May 30, 2017 - 04:57pm PT
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Oh yea??!! Well you. ... you! well you, you think like a human! No worries - a big part of thinking like a human is probably thinking that the way other humans think is insane, without noticing that we think the same insane way.
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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May 30, 2017 - 05:28pm PT
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"If it's that simple- then why have we not been able to produce a reliable way of detecting earthquakes? Are we not smarter than dogs?"
We have an earthquake warning system being developed on the west coast. Japan already has one.
It provides only a slight advance warning, so anyone who is to use it must connect their alarms to it directly. The advance time provided is proportional to how far you are from the epicenter (if there are enough sensors)
Trump is planning to cancel funding for the system.
It could be used
to pause critical surgeries
to pause crane operations
to slow train traffic
to stop traffic on vulnerable bridge entrances
to stop elevators even with floors
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-earthquake-early-warning-20170522-story.html
" The early warning system works on a simple principle: The shaking from an earthquake travels at about the speed of sound through rock — slower than the speed of today's communications systems. That means it would take more than a minute for, say, a magnitude 7.8 earthquake that starts at the Salton Sea to shake up Los Angeles, 150 miles away, traveling on the state’s longest fault, the San Andreas.
The prototype system has had some early successes. When a magnitude 6.0 earthquake hit Napa in 2014, the system gave researchers in San Francisco about eight seconds of warning before shaking began. Last year, 30 seconds of warning reached downtown L.A. before the ground shook from a magnitude 4.4 quake centered near Banning. "
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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May 30, 2017 - 10:03pm PT
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You can see for yourself that some people are small and some people are larger, so it stands to reason, with some degree of accuracy, that in the continuum of human size, someone exists who's large enough to hold the earth up while standing on that turtle's back! No wait, this was supposed to be about my huuuuuge consciousness.
You should try reading the post I wrote, but then again you have to know how to read. You do have a huge consciousness, unfortunately you think it's worthless. Science sees human life as insignificant and finite and of course this diminishes any responsibility one might have to virtue. Good luck with that.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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May 31, 2017 - 04:55am PT
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Ethics don't require religion.
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feralfae
Boulder climber
in the midst of a metaphysical mystery
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May 31, 2017 - 06:26am PT
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^
Well said, Mr. Force.
Morality, with its religious overtones, is not ethics, which are founded in logic. The two can certainly overlap. For instance, we don't murder people who make us angry because as humans we do not go around murdering people who disagree with us, (even if it might make life a lot easier :) ) WhIle morality and virtue often appeal to religion or emotions to justify their precepts, ethics, when practiced rationally, will appeal to logic to justify its precepts.
I'm working on a paper right now about the disparities between morality and ethics. Ethics, I have found, are of logical universal application to human action. Morality, I have found, is a regional/religious/cultural manifestation of human action.
thank you
ff
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WBraun
climber
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May 31, 2017 - 06:31am PT
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we don't murder people who make us angry because as humans we do not go around murdering people who disagree with us
You Americans have been doing this very exact thing all over the world and still doing it.
Assassinating, killing civilians, along with all your stoopid violence against each other.
America is the most violent country on the planet against all living entities.
Soooo, you are full of sh!t .......
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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May 31, 2017 - 06:32am PT
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Bullsh#t. Science is trying to understand and preserve all life on this planet.
Are you really that naive? Science, I repeat "science" and science alone has provided the means necessary for the destruction of this planet. Save it, Ha! Talk about bullsh#t. Go tell it to your local nuke factory.
Ethics don't require religion.
Perhaps not but it requires a belief in the meaningful nature of human life, it requires an understanding that our lives and mind, our ability to know and understand are important and we're not just insignificant life forms on a dust speck in a nearly infinite universe.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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May 31, 2017 - 06:45am PT
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"Are you really that naive? Science, I repeat "science" and science alone has provided the means necessary for the destruction of this planet. Save it, Ha! Talk about bullsh#t. Go tell it to your local nuke factory."
Bullshit again, humans and humans alone made nuclear plants/weapons.
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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May 31, 2017 - 07:07am PT
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Bullshit again, humans and humans alone made nuclear plants/weapons.
Okay, then I guess science and religion have something in common don't they: human manipulation can do bad or good. I sure wouldn't get rid of science simply because of its negative manifestations and I can say the same for religion. As in science the good religion does far out weighs the negatives it's sometimes inclined toward.
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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May 31, 2017 - 07:17am PT
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Bob: Science is trying to understand and preserve all life on this planet.
Science is not supposed to be honoring or promoting any values other than its own, and those concern rigor and validity. That’s supposedly what makes it objective. Values may possibly fall out of research (e.g., forced variety to assist evolution), but I think all academics that I've worked with would be highly skeptical.
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feralfae
Boulder climber
in the midst of a metaphysical mystery
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May 31, 2017 - 07:19am PT
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Perhaps not but it requires a belief in the meaningful nature of human life, it requires an understanding that our lives and mind, our ability to know and understand are important and we're not just insignificant life forms on a dust speck in a nearly infinite universe.
True. Ethics requires that we view other humans as having the same rights as we have. It requires the ability to perform critical thinking. And ethically, I think we are bound to share insights we have gained with others, preferably through successfully modeling our ethics.
No Werner, I am not full of excrement. Werner, our government makes war. If you know of more things I can do to stop such activity, I'd be happy to hear about those actions.
Ethically, I would not go to war or kill anyone. Wars are about murdering people. People who go to war have various motivations, but as an individual, there is no way I could justify going to war, even if it meant prison. I would not serve as an ambulance driver or as a medic, either. I have yet to find a way to stop this government from waging war and murdering people. I can speak against war, which I do. I can refuse to support wars, which I do. My personal ethical compass does not allow me to support war in any way. I am all for self-defense as an individual, but entirely against warfare, weapons of mass destruction, and blind obedience to politicians and tyrants.
How would you stop the government of this nation from going about its usual occupation, which is warfare both abroad and against us right here at home? If you have some helpful thoughts on this, I would certainly like to hear them. Read them. Thank you.
ff
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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May 31, 2017 - 07:24am PT
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Science and religion are both going to be around much longer than anyone posting here. Science is is inextricably woven into our lives and, to an extent, so is religion.
I have come to a personal conclusion that all religions are human constructs and that there is no divine revelation. I have tried, as much as possible, to exclude religion from my life. The fact remains that many decisions made by others that effect my life are decisions made with a strong religious bias. So, try as I might to exclude it, I still find that religious belief effects the way I live my life.
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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May 31, 2017 - 07:26am PT
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I am not religious. At all.
But I just don't see any right at all, natural or otherwise, that empowers me to abolish religion and tell half the world population its my way or the highway.
There it is. Reason, reasonableness a remarkable human quality.
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WBraun
climber
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May 31, 2017 - 07:30am PT
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How would you stop the government of this nation from going about its usual occupation, which is warfare both abroad and against us right here at home?
Stop the mechanistic industrialized animal slaughterhouses which breed 90% of the violence against all living entities.
The real reason Buddha came was to stop all unnecessary the violence against all living beings.
Modern slaughterhouses karmic reactions by material nature create violence.
Stoopid Americans are clueless to this very simple basic understanding how all that violence creates a negative destructive consciousness ........
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feralfae
Boulder climber
in the midst of a metaphysical mystery
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May 31, 2017 - 07:43am PT
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Thank you Werner. It does come down to overpopulation, greed, and the initiation of force. Yes, we definitely need to reverse population growth, end factory farming (humans and their livestock account for a very large percentage of the biomass of Earth these days, while natural systems are polluted, exterminated, and paved).
I do not know how to end factory farming and processing. I am fortunate to be able to hunt and fish, have a garden and fruit trees, and to know how to forage. I heat with wood and live most simply. Most people are not so fortunate. Nor do they know how to make better choices.
How would you stop factory farming of animals and of the land?
ff
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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May 31, 2017 - 07:48am PT
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Science is not supposed to be honoring or promoting any values other than its own, and those concern rigor and validity. That’s supposedly what makes it objective.
Well put, MikeL.
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