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elcapfool
Big Wall climber
hiding in plain sight
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Karl,
You seem intent on working your way onto my shitlist...
We used to call Pete "the Deciple" because he listen to Chongo as if he was spouting gospel. The book wasn't a collaboration. Chuck had hundreds of pages of techniques and ramblings, and a lot of stuff I really couldn't classify.
Chuck didn't ask him to, Pete basically forced him to let him edit it. I was sitting RIGHT THERE, this isn't gossip or hearsay, I am telling you from first hand knowledge.
Ask BL about how Pete hounded Klaus to "co-author" something he already wrote.
Subsequently, Pete submitted "tech tips" to the mags and recieved payment for them. Chongo never saw a penny of that.
Chuck was especially bitter about the hauling ratchet.
The ratchet and the load release knot are the only useful things in it if you ask me. But the section on Partners is absolutely classic and high in enertainment value.
Cybele, I think you must be a caring person to be able to tolerate such obvious and despicable carachter flaws in someone who holds your life in their hands. Please refrain from making "guy" generalizations. I have never, and would never behave in such a manner. Even in the roaring drunk, hormone saturated days of youth I have never been anything other than respectful towards women. However, I hold the caveat that all humans will be treated equally in conversation and commerce. If a woman says something stupid, she is going to hear the same reply as if it came from a man. Of course, I am not perfect, in that I hold my tongue if it is a 300 pound steroid popping weightlifter doing the spouting...
It is a source of continual amazement to me that Pete has gotten up some of the routes he has. We did the Muir AFTER he soloed Native Son, and what I saw HORRIFIED me. I got into wall climbing because of the thrill of the unknown, but when one of the unknowns is whether or not the line is REALLY fixed, it kind of took the fun out of it. I couldn't bear to touch rock for a year after that trip, I was that traumatized.
Cyb and Tom,
I hope you get to do El Cap with a good partner someday. Because it can be one of the sweetest experiences in life.
Hell, doing LIA with the KKK dude was more fun than the Muir...
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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In response to some of the stuff written above, please click here to read [url="http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=300092&msg=300354#msg300354"]how I prefer to deal with personal issues.[/url] However I offer my thanks to Cybele – you’re a real sweetie, and you “get” me, both the good and the bad. Her words here came as a tremendous surprise and delight.
Cybele has been a superb partner on several El Cap wall ascents – she is strong, willing, motivated, and a great problem-solver. She offers excellent critical thinking skills, and somehow finds a way to get the job done. She has always taken her share of the sharp end – half – and will beat me up if I try to usurp her lead. She can swim upstream through dripping wet oozing munge, and is also a very competent ice climber. I wish she would nail more, because her farting around with itty-bitty micro-cams and nuts takes her forever sometimes, and I’m hardly the one to complain about someone taking “too long” to lead a pitch! Cybele is credible and scrupulously fair, and won’t take sh|t from no one, especially me. She has an off-beat sense of humour that seems to complement mine, and we get along great much of the time. Most importantly, Cybele knows how to have fun on a wall, and revels in the joy of unrelenting verticality. She introduced me to Murphy’s stout – now my all time favourite – and gave me her last can on the summit. {burp}
In response to Hardman Knott’s, elcapfool’s and Karl’s posts above:
Chongo is my friend and Wall Doctor. Yes Karl, you’re right. I invested perhaps a thousand unpaid hours over three years editing his Complete Book of Big Wall Climbing – Volume1 – The Ground Manual, so you could well say our collaboration was “partly responsible” for the existence of his book! I considered this work to be a huge struggle fighting Chongo’s convoluted writing style but also a labour of love – I learned tons, and with his help I succeeded on my first solo of El Cap via Iron Hawk. [Thank you Juan – I agree, but only if they are cute ;)] Chongo thanked me that I took his ideas to the big wall to test them, thus sparing him the bother. Similarly I have spent at least twice that time sharing big wall tips with you-all on the internet, and have received similar compensation for my efforts.
I have not plagiarized any of Chongo’s work, any more than he or I plagiarized the work of other Wall Doctors before us like Largo, Deuce and Robbins. I have always plugged his book whenever possible, and if you can afford to buy it, I highly recommend it. Perhaps someone can post the link to Chuck’s website, please. There is no greater booster of Chongo’s book than me – all of my on-line writing supports this as Karl points out – and only an elcapfool would claim that this is not so.
Evidently I have traumatized Christian for more than a year. He offers a lot of advice for someone who has said he will never climb a big wall again. I have tried to work out our differences via email, a number of times over the past almost six years since Muir Wall, and most recently a couple of days ago when he told me that my words were well said, and that he would refrain from posting any more concerning this stuff. I believed we had worked things out between us and that would be the end of it, that we had "agreed to disagree", but perhaps there remain some unresolved issues? If so, please contact me via email, Christian.
A few days ago, another person extended the olive branch to me via instant message, quoting to me my own words which I accepted, and again I thought we had worked things out. This person promised me that they would no longer write nasty stuff about me here, but yesterday there was more of the same. This amazed and hurt me, so yet again I make the same offer, to please contact me via email if there are any further unresolved issues.
So far as I am aware, about the only original ideas I have come up with are the Haul Bag Strap Load Release Knott, and the concept of using prusiks [really Klemheists] to hold your hooks in place for pro when soloing. [HINT – use with Yates Screamers] I figured this out while soloing The Shortest Straw after I ran out of duct tape, though I once took a huge whipper onto a taped-down Cliffhanger hook [which held!] while attempting to solo Native Son. I’m pretty much a chickenshit when it comes to climbing, and I figure having some pro is better than knott having any.
The Canadian Death Knott™ is truly a miraculous marvel of big wall engineering, and if you would like to learn how to tie it, I would be delighted to teach it to you. Please approach me in Yosemite at any time during the 2007 spring and fall wall climbing seasons where I am a visible “itinerant local” and easily found, unless I happen to be on the wall.
To learn how to tie the CDK™ you will need the following three things:
- a hunk of rope or accessory cord at least five feet long
- a second hunk of rope or accessory cord of the same diameter as the first, and also at least five feet long
- a beer
Place the above three things in my hands, and I will construct for you the infamous Canadian Death Knott™. Not only is the CDK™ guaranteed to hold your weight while you jug more than a full rope length to the summit of El Cap after you have just followed me up, but it is also guaranteed to miraculously disappear in your hands immediately after use, in much the same way as your beer just did.
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artmusicsouth
climber
VA
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I don't know Pete but I have found his posts at RC.com really entertaining and they have caused me to think about the systems I use in climbing. (please note that I am a Big Wall Theorist as I have yet to complete my first wall ;) ) I have also been encouraged by the apparent change in "attitude" he seems to have taken int he recent years (I was not around when the sh#t hit the fan back on RC.com.) There is much to say about someone who owns up to their sin and embraces them, not in a manner that celebrates them but realizes that he is a man in need of a Savior (cf. Romans 3:23.)
It was because of his posts that I was made aware of Congo's book. I have recently thought of dropping the $100 for it but the link for chongnation.com is not working.
Ebay anyone?
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Nobody needs Him more than me.
Back in the day, I wrote a lot of truly nasty, tasteless, stupid, vile, reprehensible, thoughtless, worthless and intentionally hurtful trash on RC.com which upset a lot of people. In nearly all cases I have sought to make amends with those I hurt back then, but if you are one of the many and I have not yet written to you, please contact me via email. I mention I am leaving for Florida tonight for three weeks, but as you all know, I return every email I receive.
I wrote dumbass stuff on RC.com because my heart was in a very bad place at that time, and I enjoyed the attention, notoriety and release writing on the web gave me. Truly I was President of the Get A Life Club. Then the stuff began to backfire. People began to seek retribution, to hurt me, and to make up stuff about me to hurt me. While I am no angel, neither am I the devil incarnate some purported me to be. Somewhere between a missionary and a mercenary is a guy like me. But I certainly continued to give people just cause to flame me. I was at times, and unfortunately can still be, a prick.
But I learned that trying to make onseself better at the expense of someone else is a downhill spiral - you really only end up shooting yourself in the foot and sabotaging your own credibility. Sometimes this costs you the friendship of those who love you, and whom you love, the most. It's very true that you can really only hurt the ones you love. Each of us is responsible for his own happiness, and should try to seek our highest from His Utmost, not to mention making things better for our fellow man in this oft-crappy world. I hope I have tipped the karmic balance a bit by teaching people how to climb big walls. Nothing pleases me more than when I meet someone in Yosemite, and they tell me how my writing helped them get to the summit!
One of the things I will do if and when I am invited back to RC.com will be to delete the worst, and continue to seek amends when first approached. However I will leave some really stupid stuff, just to remind myself what a real @sshole I can be when I set my mind to it.
I am trying to heal, but it is a journey and not a destination. These things take time. I still sometimes write things I regret, but thankfully a lot less often. I have made a substantive effort to write mostly edifying stuff, and I appreciate that you have noticed. In the same way as I have retired from free climbing, I am trying to retire from flaming. But it is much more difficult. However, I am pleased to report I have mostly recovered from my bold text addiction.
Please don't beat up people [too much] over all this nonsense. If they wrote something bad about me, chances are their heart is really hurting, and they have their own stuff to deal with.
Praise the LORD and pass the pitons, eh?
Pete
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elcapfool
Big Wall climber
hiding in plain sight
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Finally!
I've been trolling this thread for days without a nibble. I was ready to throw the rod over the side, and then off the port bow... Thar She Blows! Aarrghhh, It be the white whale!
Yeah, I'm going to stop. But this thread hasn't fallen off the front page yet, so I have stuck around.
I don't really know why I am still here. Memories of friends and the adventures we shared, the fact that eventhough it is unlikely I will ever climb again, I will always in my soul be a climber. That, and this is the most interesting bunch of folks with a most diverse group of skill sets and opinions. And I know so many of you in real life.
As for picking on Pete, I know I shouldn't do it. It is contrary to my spiritual and philosophical beliefs. But I can't help myself, it's like crack, I just need another hit...
It is most likely residual bitterness for the destruction of my desire to do that with which I identified myself. The Muir made me quit wall climbing, which is ironic, because it is such an easy route. I did a few after that, but the thrill was definately gone. Then someone did me the favor of stealing all my gear, and the temptation to return was totally removed.
So years later, I find myself here, with nothing left but bitterness and resentment, and a few good memories. I've drank my beers, shot my mouth off, and now it's time to piss on the fire and go pass out in the woods.
And with that Ladies and Gents, I bid you all a fond Adieu...
C-Y'all in Hell,
ECF
P.S.- Oh yeah, Chongo is a busboy now in SF.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Oh shut up. But you're probably right. Come back to the Ditch sometime and I will, like, buy you a beer, eh?
Incidentally, when you wrote "Ivy climbs faster than Pete" I nearly pissed my pants laughing!
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mdavid
Big Wall climber
CA, CO, TX
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Chongo's book can be purchased by contacting
Debbie at Dragon Publishing
626-798-0127
it's well worth the 100.
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Landgolier
climber
the flatness
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fer chrissakes Pete, this isn't over just because you want it to be.
Where in FL are you going? email it to the addy in my profile if you don't want it public, if you're near my stomping grounds I'll point you in the right direction for fish & food.
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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If they wrote something bad about me, chances are their heart is really hurting, and they have their own stuff to deal with.
"their own stuff to deal with"?
ummmmm-
uhhhhh-
ya mean-
like, the part where you treated her like dirt?
hey, i guess we can all sit here and learn from your example on that one, and save the beer, too. {burp}
in all this talk of gawd, lest we forget what they say about hell having no wrath like that of a woman scorned...
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Conan
Trad climber
Cave City, KY
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If you're gonna cast the role of PTPP in a movie, don't you think Steve Buscemi would be the best choice?
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Blowboarder
Boulder climber
Back in the mix
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Did you mean Steve Foley?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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No Way
John Ritter would have been the guy to play Pete, hands down.
you know, from "Three's Company"
Nice posts above Pete
Peace
Karl
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Sorry for your hurt Janet.
I know Pete's been a jerk in the past and I don't know how far he's come, but I see improvement and I'd like to encourage it.
That's all. I never put anyone on the "damned forever" list. That's just me. Doesn't mean I'd go up the stone with him.
Peace
Karl
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cybele
Ice climber
finally, west of the Mississippi
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Can everyone just stop already? If the climbing community really cared about the injustices perpetrated by lovers, I have stories that would curl straight hairs. Somehow I never found the public forum an appropriate place for personal mudslinging... no matter if deserved or not, or how well known the individual in question. Why? Because nobody was there for the whole version on both sides, and even if they were, we don't have a widely and uniformly accepted mechanism in place for "policing" emotional wrongs within social groups. And so, in my own sad and heartbroken experience, nobody (with just a few exeptions) really cares, beyond the thrill of gossip. Go to group therapy for cryin out loud. I live with pain of unfairness too. (Gosh I am not really such a bitch usually. Really I care about everyone's feelings. Ok, everyone already knows, Pete can be a real cad. Wanna hear my complaints about my climbing love? They might be a surprise to many.)
This thread does not deserve so damn many posts! There is so much criticism that could be made about so many climbers, arrggghhhhh!! If we make a list we can take the thread to a thousand.
[By the way I am pretty embarrassed at Pete's vivid extolling of my supposed virtues. I think he was awfully pleased by my posts. But alas my other partners (yes there are others) may not wax so gloriously positive...]
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Some people belong on the damned forever list.
There are plenty of folks who have not done that which neccessitates extreme redemption, and those folks are much more deserving IMNSHO.
Return of the prodigal blah blah blah.
That religion is the refuge of a scoundrel fits much better, and will save you a lot more trouble in the long run.
THere is an endless supply of jerks who 'get religion', and then use that to somehow absolve their behavior, and yet they continue to behave as before.
BTW, if you think the truth is now out and everything is cut and dried, you are dead wrong. This thread has become a morass of manipulation behind the scenes.
I truly wish there were a god, cause someone would get theirs at the end, and it would not be pretty.
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Jan 24, 2007 - 03:54pm PT
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bump
this place is rather dull w/out scandals to follow along with, dontchya think?
somehow this all still strikes me as unresolved-
why is that?
i have a question for pedro-
(as you are the self proclaimed authority on internet credibility)
help a brotha out ova-here-
let's talk about this idea of "credibility" for just a minute.
now then, if someone on some internet forum tarnishes their own "credibility", then they are not to be trusted, and generally not to be believed, in terms of their own claims, etc., isn't that right?
thanks in advance for your speedy reply
(read: don't make me bump this thread for 2 weeks to get you to reply, you know you want this thread to vanish back into forgotenness, an i right?)
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 24, 2007 - 05:47pm PT
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WTF? I had no idea this thing would run out for like 300 posts and Pete isn't even dead. I'm obviously going to have to see what this is all about since I started the damned thread, but haven't read it since the first few pages...
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Wild Bill
climber
Ca
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Jan 24, 2007 - 05:56pm PT
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Read the whole thread?! Why bother? Here's what's been happening:
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Jan 29, 2007 - 07:30pm PT
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re: my earlier post:
i have a question for pedro-
(as you are the self proclaimed authority on internet credibility)
somehow this all still strikes me as unresolved-
why is that?
help a brotha out ova-here-
let's talk about this idea of "credibility" for just a minute.
now then, if someone on some internet forum tarnishes their own "credibility", then they are not to be trusted, and generally not to be believed, in terms of their own claims, etc., isn't that right?
thanks in advance for your speedy reply
seriously pedro- i have a question about cred.
what are we to make of your cred if you are not willing to discuss said cred?
so here is my question:
it's actually quite a conundrum (sp?)
if janet has revoked her claim that you knowingly passed your herpes on to her:
then that means that her claim was false and she has no credibility on an internet forum, isn't that right?
so wouldn't that mean that we ought not to believe her when she retracts the claim?
see where i am going w/ this?
therefore, we are left only w/ gawd-given reason to determine whether she:
*a) made all of that up just to spite you, but in her haste to be a vindictive jilted ex-lover, she didn't think to pick a disease that she wouldn't so much mind having herself
or
*b) made a true claim (that you passed your herpes infection on to her and had never been honest enough with a lover to feel the need to mention the fact that you were infected), and then retracted it because she was somewhat embarrassed to have admitted she had contracted said disease, and then posted about it on the internet for gawd and everyone else to read about...
so you see how this is confusing for people out here in annonymous-ville?
so please pedro, please please help me, via the doctorine of internet forum credibility, to determine what to believe in this case?
the fate of PtPP vs. PtHP hangs in the balance!!!
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