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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Apr 25, 2014 - 01:50pm PT
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Well, I expected the typical innernutz strawman response from some, and I got it, but its worth it to counter such poorly thought out ideas in the hopes of having a more well considered, less simplistic discussion.
My argument has not been prevent more cash from going into that economy. It's to be careful in how that happens, if that's the proper course of action at all. It seems, however, that the Sherpas involved, have clearly stated what they want. They're wishes are not focused on 'pimp my paycheck'. Not that what they want should matter or anything.
Some folks can't break free from America's fake, media generated Lefty v Righty template. And we've long loved to tell Little Brown People what's good for them, and some are doing here. The results haven't necessarily panned out all that well for anyone, historically, so I think a little deference to local wishes might be in order.
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John M
climber
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Apr 25, 2014 - 01:58pm PT
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Well, I expected the typical innernutz strawman response from some, and I got it, but its worth it to counter such poorly thought out ideas in the hopes of having a more well considered, less simplistic discussion.
Some folks can't break free from America's fake, media generated Lefty v Righty template. Welcome to 2014.
ever do passive aggressive much?
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Apr 25, 2014 - 02:02pm PT
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One man's passive aggressive is another's stating the obvious. And I only suggested caution - but that was enough to evoke the all-to-common Oligarch Alert response, born of the bullshit non-debate Americans continue to wage with each other in the political sphere.
It seems that you and I agree that the Sherpas desires be listened to, but whatever.
Take care, John.
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John M
climber
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Apr 25, 2014 - 02:04pm PT
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Didn't mean to get harsh Tvash.. just thought that you could do better.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Apr 25, 2014 - 02:05pm PT
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As can you, my friend, as can you.
Mine was a muted response as compared to the weird politard labels I was being awarded with by those I countered (laughable, if you actually knew my politics and history of activism), but your YMMV.
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John M
climber
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Apr 25, 2014 - 02:07pm PT
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agreed..
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Guck
Trad climber
Santa Barbara, CA
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Apr 25, 2014 - 02:11pm PT
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Income inequality in my neighborhood would not improve if one of my neighbor suddenly earned 1 million dollars a day. The same would hold in Nepal. The problem can be addressed only by giving the community the means to improve itself; build infrastructure like hospitals, roads, bridges etc. Paying the Sherpas a fortune (in relative terms) is not going to improve the welfare of the community. Let the market decide what is the price for Sherpa service (They would certainly benefit by forming some sort of union). Meanwhile, the Nepalese government should give the community a larger part of the climbing fees to build the needed infrastructure.
edit: With an increased income, each Sherpa could also decide on the level of life insurance to carry. Do they have that option now?
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Apr 25, 2014 - 02:32pm PT
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This would be my initial thinking as well.
While in Nepal we ran into a trip lead by Art Wolfe - the Seattle photographer. His head high altitude Sherpa earned the nickname of 'Hollywood'. (I don't think he was fixing too many ropes on this particular gig, but that's what he normally did on others). Man, that guy loved to party, loved the bling - particularly his replica Rolex, and loved the ladies. I'm not sure stuffing a bunch more cash in his pocket would have made the community a much better place - unless you were a Kukri rum vendor. I'm not faulting Hollywood for his proclivities, mind you. To each his own.
Our sirdar, Nuri, was quite a wealthy man by local standards, and he knew it.
Anecdotal, sure, and everybody's different, of course, but the stereotype of the poor, oppressed, underpaid high altitude Sherpa isn't necessarily accurate in every case. The closest analogy I can think of here is 'poor, oppressed, underpaid test pilot'. Dangerous job - and one that is very well compensated for. That's not a reason not to make it safer - but also not a reason to vastly increase the paycheck, either.
What is accurate is that 16 Sherpas just died in a single accident, and they've got a list of some well reasoned changes they believe will make things better in the future.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Apr 25, 2014 - 02:48pm PT
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Teach the Nepali people how to play baseball! They don't need baseball.....they play Cricket. Or at least that was the only game common to all the nationalities stuck in the snow at Lukla when I was there. We played on the snowed in parking area at the top of the runway. When the airstrip was still a Yak pasture.
The current economic model is not sustainable. No one walks into Khumbu any more as I did in 1981. My wife and I created our own mini expedition in KTM. Hired a Sirdar, he hired a cook and porters. We supplied in the bazaar (itself a memorable experience), hitched a ride to the Sun Khosi with a friend's kayak expedition (the Sun Khosi had only had 2 or 3 attempts) and hit the trail. Two weeks later we got to Lukla having spent $ all along the way in teashops, buying fresh food from farmers, staying in two inns, paying the porters.
At that time I'd say roughly half the trekkers were walking in. Few were flying except expedition trekkers and climbers. Lukla was already a tourist trap, but it's unrecognizable now. Even the runway is paved.
Google Earth hardly shows the old trail (which now starts at Jiri, about 1/2 way) while the trail up from Lukla is of course easily visible.
The foreign money is now all spent in KTM and above Lukla. The Sherpa insurance is totally inadequate to the mortality rates. It's a difficult problem. We'll have to see how it all works out.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Apr 25, 2014 - 03:02pm PT
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Here's a very nice BBC documentary about the search for Sandy Irvine's body which actually concentrates on the lives of the individual Sherpas on the expedition.My Sherpa friends have been recommending it to me for some time, but this is the first time I've seen it. Well worth watching if you haven't already.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlAiU5fIaKY
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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Apr 25, 2014 - 08:18pm PT
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Apr 25, 2014 - 10:20pm PT
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LOL. We saw that very same scene in Nepal - 80s version. Tracksuit sans pith helmet. Guess the altitude wasn't his cup of tea.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Apr 26, 2014 - 08:26am PT
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Doing a quick calculation based on the numbers in the article, a Sherpa making $5000 in a season makes 7 times the Nepalese national income.
Applying the same ratio to the US national average income yields over 300K a year.
The article also touches upon in interesting question - should the Sherpa be able to prevent climbers who do not use their fixed ropes from climbing before those ropes are fixed?
Who controls Nepal's national parks, and, more specifically, Everest? Who should and how?
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Apr 26, 2014 - 08:46am PT
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Note that the Sherpas have not asked for higher wages although that may be coming. What they have asked for is more life and health insurance. It's the same everywhere. If you buy a house you expect to pay for it with a certain income. If you get killed, the payments go on anyway. The other problem is that so much of it depends on luck and whether your climbing agency also has you covered beyond the mandatory insurance from the government.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Apr 26, 2014 - 08:47am PT
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As for who should control a national park, of course it should be the national government of that country. The problem is that the lowland high caste Hindus who run the Nepalese administration are not willing or able to enforce those standards themselves (witness the team who flew to base camp in helicopters and then had to wear oxygen masks in between speaking with the Sherpas).
The next logical group of people to enforce laws and procedures would be the local Sherpas, but the Nepalese government has been reluctant to empower them to do so. As a result, foreigners have pretty much had a free run of it.
Right now the government is in its fourth year of trying to write a constitution, being so far deadlocked over the issue of a strong central government which the ruling castes favor, and federalism which the indigenous peoples favor so the happenings on Everest are part of a broader struggle.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Apr 26, 2014 - 09:13am PT
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In the end, Nature's voice speaks loudest.
The Sherpas did the right thing by honoring their fallen comrades, and the smart thing by asserting their influence in no uncertain terms for reform.
How many Americans would forfeit a $300K salary to advocate for social justice?
That's a very interesting question, and not a pretty one.
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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Apr 26, 2014 - 09:29am PT
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I'd like to see the % breakdown of the $60-75K. Where's the money going?
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zempto
Social climber
Canada
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Apr 26, 2014 - 10:31am PT
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If Sherpas fix all of the ropes, carry most (if not all) of the gear, chop the tent platforms and set up the tents, cook the food and melt snow for water, what is left for the Western guides do?
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Apr 26, 2014 - 11:57am PT
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Western guides do very well, thank you.....nice gig guiding the pig.
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