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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Well said Steve Shea.
And BWB, 20 or so beds does not have to equate to 20 or so cars. Probably more like four or five. Who ever said it would be one car per climber per bed? Meeting there in multiple cars is more of a front range climber thing. Not so much an itinerant traveling climber issue. And better they stay parked there rather that drive back and forth daily.
It can indeed be climbable year round in Eldo. Some of my best days there have been in Winter.
Sunshine, sandstone and solitude what's not to like? The pool and the picknickers have a vastly bigger impact on the traffic woes of ES. And those folks have little to no care of or connection to the local community. Climbers on the other hand do make connections with the locals many of whom are avid climbers. Climbers come to cherish the Park and appreciate the locals. The AAC would supervise and manage a Climber's Lodge very well indeed. It Could be a fine community asset that Pitbull would only bitch about because they wouldn't hire him to manage it.
Don't be fooled by the rhetoric of an alternate agenda. The building as is has many limitations but more land than you may realize. It may never come to pass but it is worth looking into.
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desdichado
Boulder climber
colorado
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Its funny to think how much climbers have changed. The climbers i grew up with almost 40 years ago were much more like the Eldo locals then the AAC types. After all the community is about 30% trailer homes squeezed in next to each other like the tents used to be in camp 4 or "Camping les Cedres" in Apt... and the 'Gucci' cabins, does my foundation less 380 sq.ft one count?
.. As for the AAC, Penn Burris, one of their big guns described the AAC in an early email to the town as " the AAC is primarily composed of married, white, men with six digit incomes" (really that's what he said!) if that's you then congratulations you are one of America's reigning 1%! But that wasn't the climbing scene that i grew up in nor would it have been one that would have made me want to dedicate my life to the sport..
But i get it.. Boulder and the front range really does need a place where climbers can stay. But they aren't coming here to climb in Eldo and making them stay in Eldo isn't going to do them or the locals any favors. I walk the canyon and the Fowler trail high on the south side, with my daughter almost four afternoons a week and even on a perfect afternoon, often i can count the number of climbers on a single hand. Climbers come to Colorado to Boulder or for the competitions or for the sport climbing and Eldo grand old crag that it is doesn't have high enough concentrations of any of that to be appealing to the vast majority of visitors these days.
So why not find a spot that will really serve climbers? One that can accommodate events and handle large volumes of climbers on high season times as well as hardcore types that are traveling from area to area and staying mostly in their cars? a location thatwould be closer to grocery stores and places to eat as well the climbing that people are coming to Colorado to do? You might not get the post card prettiness of Eldo as a backdrop for a photo in the AAC's annual report but really that isn't what this is supposed to be about right?
C. Griffith
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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I'd even consider re-joining the AAC just to support it.
what an honor to the AAC to have your membership
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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And why are we discussing this what does this have to do with California anyway?
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Is the problem too many visitors, or not enough? Great question, perhaps I was being a little abstract.
Let me try again:
I agree with the many posters who observe that it would be great to have a hostel and/or camping in or near Boulder to serve visiting climbers, but that the "rathole" in Eldo seems very sub-optimal for multiple reasons.
The AAC may or may not have the right to build the hostel--I don't know--just seems like a bad idea to me regardless of the local reaction.
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pitbull
Mountain climber
Co, NY, WV
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First off Steve Shea the Tetons is constantly used as a similar lodging facility by the AAC as how fabulous they are at lodging accomodations. The Heuco Tanks was just purchased last year , correct? ISn't that location near Juarez...awesome. The New River Gorge just opened and the Gunx(under AAC management) the Crash Pad in Tennessee is owned by 2 young guys and AAC members get a discount, correct?
So where is a similar facility operated by the AAC like the proposed Eldo Lodge? This 22 nonsense at a time maximum....think about all you AAC members are you not going to stop at your clubhouse after climbing to use the bathroom, see a friens, have a beer? Do you not think every Honky Tonk cruisin up in their RV are going to think the AAC Lodge is the gateway to the park? Think about it?
Also, Philo, you are dead wrong with your parameters of the post office building, even though you put in all the lighting for the now debunk Green Belly, is that your agenda? Another lighting gig by your buddies at the AAC, I am sure it will be eco awesome!
The AAC also plans on having fundraising events to "raise the money" to remodel the building for the Lodge, which they claim will take years! Awesome how is a fundraiser with 22 people going to be successful unless it was 15-30 grand a plate? So when the AAC has a fundraising event and one of the residents wants to have a party and there is nowhere for friends and family to park because everyone from the AAC is rallying money and crying poor! How is that going to work?
There are much better options available.. i don't get it why the AAC is deadset on this property?
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pitbull
Mountain climber
Co, NY, WV
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Please listen to the voices of reason...WBW, Social, JLP, Janet, Christian, Mission, Brad White...they know the real deal. I know no one is going to admit what I am saying is right because you luv to hate the pittbull or toothless chiahauha I may be toothless but I got a huge set of iron nuts!
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Pitbull wrote: I may be toothless but I got a huge set of iron nuts!
Like most of your ranting here that is not based on reality.
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pitbull
Mountain climber
Co, NY, WV
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Mark Donovan is a neighbor of mine ha ha Meagan you all will know who I am if you ever get your clubhouse not to worry....didn't Mark put up a thoughtful letter asking people to have respectable conversation with him? I would never do that you guys don't pay attention to anyone who disagrees with ya'll in a nice manner. I wouldn't waste my time being nice to you what will that help?
Your right I am not a climber I am a monster truck driver weeeehoooo why would I ever want to spend anytime in NY with a bunch of yankees
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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Any hope you had of convincing anyone of your opinion has been ruined by your sh#t attitude, Pitbull. You seem like a real prick. Whatever happens with the lodge, it'll have nothing to do with your bullshit here on supertopo. In additional, your finely vailed threats make you sound like a six year old. Given your regard to climbers as trouble makers, seems like a poor crowed to f*#k around with.
I wouldn't waste my time being nice to you what will that help?
Your purpose here SHOULD have been to garner support and understanding and being nice goes a long way. There's little anyone here can agree on and you could have easily gained some followers. Especially if you were remotely interested in a compromise. So why are you here? Do you really think making threats is going to help your cause?
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Boulder County Land Use and Boulder County building department will have the final say as to whether 22 people can sleep there. This is the case whether the proposal is from climbers, bird watchers or nuns. In the Boulder Weekly article Phil Powers agreed there were many "ifs" Also that he felt "Most of the issues can be overcome." Land Use and the Building Department are going to require that ALL, not MOST of the issues are overcome.
Cool Hand Luke was a great movie and "what we've got here is a failure to communicate" definitely comes to mind. The people of Eldorado Springs absolutely have the right to comment on potential development in their own local community, but why rush to judgement without understanding the facts and specifics surrounding this AAC project? What conceivable reason do you have (Janet, or anyone else) to believe that all of the issues will not be adequately addressed?
At this point, most of the comments by ES residents appear to be more fear related than anything else. While there is an obvious and natural fear of the unknown, why not wait until we see how all the issues of parking, traffic, sewer, etc are addressed by the AAC, before mounting such a staunch opposition? Simply let a reasoned analysis of the issues move forward before deciding whether or not the project is supportable. That only makes sense, right?
Penn Burris has not apologized, Phil Powers has attempted to.
This also seems like an emotionally fueled comment. The proposed hostel is not a "Penn Burris" project, but rather an AAC project. Phil Powers certainly has the ability to apologize on behalf of the AAC and he has done so.
Curt
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Philo, you can't be serious. 4 or 5 cars?
I think that the number would be higher, but in between parking laps I'm sure donini could take off the white gloves (thats how the Italians actually put it) and give the Pitbull an intro into climbing's own Michael Vick.
No wait, I have a better idea. How about replacing the Post Office with a 4 or 5 story structure replete with indoor parking with video monitor for those tire problems, and a climbing wall on 2 sides.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Pitbull posted; Also, Philo, you are dead wrong with your parameters of the post office building, even though you put in all the lighting for the now debunk Green Belly, is that your agenda? Another lighting gig by your buddies at the AAC, I am sure it will be eco awesome!
Yeah that's it, I am presenting the voice of a reasoned argument because I want a lighting job a few years from know. BWAHAHAHA ROTFLMAO! Damn my agenda has been disclosed.
And JLP, do you like anything? Other than your 401K?
You are always such a nay-sayer.
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pitbull
Mountain climber
Co, NY, WV
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Nope wrong again Meagan Mark and Heleen are too nice and rational with trying to work out this fiasco...being nice doesn't work ...the AAC has had the building under contract for over 7 months don't you think they would have tried to work out concerns with the community at least a couple of months before purchasing the property.
Climbers are not the problem..who is going to guarantee everyone staying in the clubhouse is here to climb? What do you guys have to mount a rock or do tie some knots to prove you can climb to stay in the lodge?
FYI the parking along the Post office is a state highway technically you are not to park there has anyone ever noticed all the parking tickets on cars parked on the road by Dowdy Draw or South Mesa?
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pitbull
Mountain climber
Co, NY, WV
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oh Meagan my name and email are somewhere on this forum.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Pitbull you are losing. Losing respect, credibility and support.
I doubt sincerely that the residents of ES really want you as their spokesperson or poster child. Does the town of ES want to be known as such a unfriendly Nimby-land?
In fact if you (and a small handful of others) were truly representative of the "scene" in Eldo/ES the conflicts with climbers would be constant and out of hand. But they have not been and are not being contentious. Except when neo-con vigilantes like you want to go all spastic playing lovely Rita meter maid. If you want to see the ugly side of ES just go look in the mirror.
For the record anyone who has been on this forum over the past many years knows exactly who I am. It has never been a secret. But for you Pitbull since you have been concerned enough to background check me here it is again.
Phil Broscovak.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Phil wrote: And JLP, do you like anything? Other than your 401K?
You are always such a nay-sayer.
Angry-older-white Male.
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Pitbull raises some good points.
What is the situation with parking along the roadside?
I always assumed that parking on the roadside to the east of the town (and beyond any the residences) was fine, legal. I often see one or two cars parked along there.
Isn't it a county road?
And as far as who stays in the hostel, that's also a legitimate question.
One that Mark Kroese, president of the AAC and who posted upthread that he was paying attention and wanted to provide transparency, should probably address.
Mark?
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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We are not talking about a prison release half way house here.
There are indeed legitimate issues and concerns regarding any land use of the type suggested.
But we are talking about the AAC here not Walmart. It is sad that some residents chose to round up the torches and pitchforks and go all Benghazi-gate. There is absolutely nothing wrong or improper with the AAC putting that property under contract (while doing their own feasibility studies) before presenting a plan to the community for input. That's how it works. In fact it was fiscally prudent of them to lock the purchase price in before the real estate Machiavellian vultures ballooned property values into the Stratosphere. They may choose to proceed or not or choose another property. They will not make a rash or foolhardy decision. They will not steam roll the locals. They will not buy it to "turn it" in a quick speculative venture. I can see a few "locals" getting their Pradas and Pranas into a twist for loosing such a golden investment opportunity. Me thinks they doth complain too much. Some other "locals" are just neo-con nest eggers that got theirs and want to shut the gate. I wouldn't be at all surprised that when all is said and done, disclosed and discussed, that a majority of ES residents would come to embrace the idea of a building refurbished into an AAC Climber's Lodge as the best possible use.
Now Pittbull why don't you get busy and start a regular shuttle service between the park and the HippieMart to cut down on parking. I would bet lots of climbers and maybe more than a few poolers would gladly ride back and forth in an air conditioned shuttle for a buck a loop. It could be the 2nd biggest industry in Eldo. Be a part of the solution O anonymous one. Quit being the problem.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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as far as accommodations, we are talking about a climber's hostel, not the Ritz Carleton or The Plaza...
...basically a place to keep your stuff reasonably secure during the day, flop and be able to cook meals while climbing.
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