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Tobia
Social climber
Denial
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... this has turned into a case for the specialist, is dr. ruth lurking somewhere?
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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I can tell you from interviews I have done with Sherpas in Kathmandu, that they are just as annoyed by the free loaders on the ropes as the owners of the guide service are.
Did Steck, Moro and Griffiths use the fixed ropes in the icefall without paying for them? If so, then maybe the Sherpas have a case for being upset.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Ron: I am sorry to have mislead you about the 7 Summits group on Everest.
I posted a few days back:
My friend passed on this email about recent events in Everest Base Camp:
while we were up there “7 Summits” showed up with 103 clients. ONE HUNDRED AND THREE. R U kidding?)
WOW!!!
I thought the shocking thing about 7 Summits was one group with 103 clients. I assume they have lots of guides to wipe noises and tie shoe-laces for their big-buck clients.
I have been within about 25 miles of Everest, I do respect Sherpas, and I think they were provoked into an ugly mob-scene by the Euro-climbers.
Humans are humans and Sherpas are in a lot of ways: super-human, but mob-scenes are always ugly. I believe this one gets a world record for "World's highest mob-scene."
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orangesporanges
Social climber
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Jan Are you aware that Ueli, Simone and Jon pledged to pay for use of fixed ropes and ladders if they needed to use them and that such was accepted by the commercial operations? Ueli and Simone have pledged the same in the past, and always paid.
And lets not forget that Simone has been offering free chopper rescues to all Sherpa climbing in the Himalayas for a wee-while now, with the understanding that he will not ask their 'employers' to reimburse him for it. And that Ueli has been involved in assisting Sherpas in the past, and would never ask or accept payment for it.
Ueli, Simone and Jon had already establisher their tent at Camp 3 in the days prior. They had moved up the mountain, staying clear of the fixing team until they reached a point that was directly across from their already established tent. They moved across, greeting the Sherpas as they walked towards them. In response, they got the banging and shaking of an ice axe and admonishment from a Sherpa known to be loyal to his employer.
The lads were just walking across to their tent. They had already established the camp spot and line several days before the Sherpa team arrived to fix.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Orangespororanges and bhilden-
In answer to your questions about whether Moro, Steck, and Griffith used any of the Sherpa fixed ropes and ladders, here's what Adrian Ballinger of Alpenglow has to say:
On that note, I encourage Simone Moro, Ueli Steck, and Jonathon Griffith, elite climbers I respect immensely who were unfortunately involved in the fight on Everest last week, to acknowledge the fixed ropes, ladders, and sherpa tracks that they used in going from Base Camp to Camp 2 each time they climbed on the peak. While their goal higher on the mountain may have been free of fixed ropes and supplemental oxygen (and therefore more pure to many at home), they, like all the other climbers here, certainly hugely benefited from fixed ropes and sherpa work in the icefall, and most likely could not have achieved their light-and-fast style of climbing without this huge amount of sherpa work and rope fixing. From talking to sherpa here who are still on the edge about last week's incident, acknowledgement of this assistance by the professional climbers would go a long way to mending the feelings of sherpa that some western climbers take advantage of their effort without acknowledgement or reward. It will not change the unacceptable behavior of last week, but it may help the future collaboration of sherpa and foreign climbers.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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I haven't read any accounts of the event. I'm still siding with the guys who were not using Sherpas or guides and all that other bullsh#t. Ignorant? Idiot? perhaps. But climbers, as opposed to guided clients and their employees, have priority. I could give a sh#t about borders, governments and jurisdictions. Climbing is climbing.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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The tragedy of this situation is that the three western guys involved are basically good human beings who screwed up in ways they didn't even realize given the cultural differences. Moro in particular seems to be a hothead and to have a really big heart at the same time. I believe him when he says that if he had not forgiven and embraced the head Sherpa who caused the problem in front of the Nepali army officers, those Sherpas would be in jail.
However, the more elite climbers start to pitch in to dis the Sherpas and defend their own rights to go anywhere anytime, the worse the situation will get. Steck in his interview with Outside made the following statement:
"These guys make a lot of money. Of course it’s hard and dangerous work, but Sherpas are the rich people in Nepal. If you make so much money you can somehow lose reality."
He also states:
" I mean, we pay a lot of money to be there, so why should I not be allowed to climb?"
Apparently, he doesn't see the contradiction.
...................................................
My favorite comment from the readers of that article was a MaxMogren who made this reply:
This prompts the obvious question of who is truly more out of touch with reality: the Sherpas, the "Stecks", or the Schmucks.I think the take home lessons here are threefold: 1) avoid crowded mountains, especially "Everest" 2) while flaunting your Western wealth and ecologically unsustainable penchant for adventure travel, don't call the head honcho anywhere -- including the lead Sherpa on Everest -- a "motherf*#*er", 3) exploiting the natural wonders of our lovely planet inevitably leads to backlash and localism. I hope this event scares a few of the unworthy Schmucks away from Sagarmatha.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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Being a Sherpa is probably safer than working in a meat packing plant in Alabama or a manufacturing plant in China or whatever so whatever. I'm sure they are more or less great guys but I don't see why they have some moral authority on a mountain.
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geo_nutt
Gym climber
the big bang
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While the situations are not the same there seems to be some pretty striking parallels to the group in Peru.
First world problems in third world places... All i know is I'm thankful I don't make t-shirts in Bangladesh and will enjoy another day climbing in Fontainebleau hoping not to create an international incident with the French! I got to go weewee!
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orle
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - May 3, 2013 - 04:07am PT
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..we immediately climbed Alpine style, without a rope, 100 meters to the left of them. They threw a piece of ice at us to scare us. But we didn't react. We continued climbing to the left of them.
If I'd be solo'ing at that altitude and anyone (local, black, white, rich, poor) would throw ice at me, I'd probably have some choice words for them as well ...
Also quoted from Simone Moro's interview:
Listen, I've been coming here 21 years. I built with my own money a school for 396 Sherpa children. I paid for the education of three different Sherpa kids. I brought my own helicopter here to do rescues for free for all Sherpas. The foreigners have to pay. So I am the last person who should be accused of not having a love for Sherpas.
[The lead sherpa] was sitting in his tent because he was getting a hard time from their leader, who said he was wrong and he was violent and so on. I went to him, I shook his hand, and I embraced him-the same person who 24 hours before wanted to kill me. And I told him, we are lucky, because you didn't kill me, and I didn't react. I have nothing against you. I hope it was a bad day for you. But I don't want to make any legal action. I could send a lot of people to prison. But I decided to show to everybody that I don't hate anybody, and I don't want to destroy the life of any young stupid Sherpa.
Moro solving this sh#t, 2013-style.
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orle
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - May 3, 2013 - 04:36am PT
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"These guys make a lot of money. Of course it’s hard and dangerous work, but Sherpas are the rich people in Nepal. If you make so much money you can somehow lose reality."
He also states:
" I mean, we pay a lot of money to be there, so why should I not be allowed to climb?"
Apparently, he doesn't see the contradiction.
Jan, I don't see the contradiction either, because you've ripped those quotes out of context. Making so much money (or trying to make so much money) that you are ultimately driven to violence and hate is something very different from what Ueli is doing.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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To me Ueli is saying that because he paid a lot of money to be there, he should be able to do what he wants. It's a little bit like some of my students who occasionally try to tell me, "I paid my tuition money, I warmed my seat, I expect an A".
Then he says that the Sherpas should accomodate people like him and not complain because they're richer than other Nepalese.
What it seems to me he's saying, (and maybe not even aware of the implications) is that it's ok for him to throw his money around but the Sherpas should be grateful and humble for theirs. It comes across as very paternalistic and colonialistic frankly, which is especially disappointing coming from a Swiss. If you read the Everest literature, the Sherpas loved the Swiss in comparison to the British because the Swiss treated them as equals, Lambert and Tenzing Norgay, becoming great friends in 1952. As a result, the Sherpas really hoped that it would be the Swiss who first climbed Everest.
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orle
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - May 3, 2013 - 05:32am PT
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What it seems to me he's saying, (and maybe not even aware of the implications) is that it's ok for him to throw his money around but the Sherpas should be grateful and humble for theirs. It comes across as very paternalistic and colonialistic frankly, which is especially disappointing coming from a Swiss.
I re-read what Ueli said and he does say that he has the right to go up the hill because he paid for his permit.
However, I don't see him say or imply that the Sherpa's should be grateful and humble.
He's saying that they should NOT resort to mob-violence, and he's saying that this violence is partly caused by money, but he's not telling anybody to be humble or grateful.
He doesn't ask the Sherpa's to accomodate him, he just asks them not to act so f*#king medieval.
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crankster
Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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WTF, Jan, are you the Sherpa's frickin attorney? What a load of crap.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Think about what the opposite of mob violence is and I think you will come up with adjectives, like calm / passive, accepting, quiet, humble, and grateful - the traditional attitudes of Sherpas toward climbers. That is medieval - knowing one's place in society and accepting it. The messy part is when aspirations rise and there is no modern means of adjudication. Then you get mob action which pretty much characterizes all of Nepalese society right now. People got rid of the royal family by hundreds of thousands of them protesting in the streets for months, and some dying for the cause, not by being quiet. They got the limited form of democracy they have now after ten years of a bloody people's rebellion.
I've stated many times, it is most unfortunate that these three climbers were the catalyst for this transformation. They made some big mistakes in terms of the local culture but did not deserve what happened. They became scape goats for a lot of other frustrations. Things will never be the same; a major turning point has been reached. This was the equivalent of throwing tea in Boston harbor.
I am an advocate for Sherpas since I know them better than all but a handful of other westerners. I speak the Sherpa language, and I've been friends with them and observing and interviewing them now since 1974. If I've learned anything in all those years of studying one of the world's 20 poorest countries, it's that the world is the way it is, not the way we would like it to be.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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The solution is that no one should be allowed on Everest without a Nepali guide. Problem solved. Everest is a tourist attraction, not a real mountaineering goal - except for the weirdos who want to set the guinness record for climbing it blindfolded with both hands tied behind their back, etc.
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orle
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - May 3, 2013 - 12:52pm PT
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Thanks for the perspective, Jan.
--
Don Paul,
Everest is a tourist attraction, not a real mountaineering goal
I'm not so sure about that:
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