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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Dec 25, 2012 - 08:15pm PT
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Joe, why are you such a hostile, negative individual?
There is little value in your rhetoric and you are constantly condemning others for not thinking as you do.
Get out and climb a little or whatever brings you peace.
Save us your grief, please.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
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Dec 25, 2012 - 08:57pm PT
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Question: Would you be concerned if you had a nephew, about 18 years old, who posted these images and quite a few others like them to his Facebook page in the past two months? The images started showing up a few months ago, around the time his father left the US for another 9 months in the Middle East. Also about that time he posted to his FB asking who would support him if he joined National Guard.
His father is an Army National Guard and pilot who, for the last few years has been been working in Afghanistan about 9 months out of a year, and according to his FB page, works for http://www.avengeinc.com. He can not tell his family specifics as to what he does.
I am not concerned he is going to do something violent to innocent people here,but more concerned he is going to enlist in some military group with a "shoot 'em up" attitude.
To me, it seems this sort of glorification of weapons use seems to be not a healthy state of mind, especially out of a young man who is just barely coming into adulthood, and whose father has been overseas the majority of last few years working in this way. I worry he is trying to "be a good soldier" for his dad, but it may have taken him over a point that is emotionally healthy.
I have been wanting to bring up the subject with his mother, my sister, but not sure what to say.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Dec 25, 2012 - 09:29pm PT
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deleted and start over:
so what IS with the "glorification of weapons" that happygirl refers to?
so many "no regulation of any kind" people here seem to have that pathology
they can go on and on about every kind of weapon, every kind of ammo
they wax sentimentally about killing animals (hunting) although no doubt most all of them truly can afford to buy their food at the market
they seem to get almost hysterically defensive at any suggestion that seeks to mitigate wholesale human slaughter that "it won't work" right NOW, while conveniently leaving out of their thought process that it COULD "work" years later IF put into effect NOW
they don't "need" to put thousands of rounds at targets all year around just to stay sharp enough to kill a statistically very very unlikely home intruder
so why not just say it, men "glorify" weapons because they make loud noises, are cool to talk about and fondle, and well, are manly things to play with, and god damn no one is going to take my fun sh#t away from me, I felt the same way about my cap guns when I was five. I own two handguns now, I know how to aim and shoot them, but I have not shot them in some years, nor do I give a damn to know all about the arcane details of their ballistics, I guess other things in life interest me more than my guns.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
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Dec 25, 2012 - 09:40pm PT
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Norton - I didn't suggest "a link" of any kind. What wrote was:
this sort of glorification of weapons use seems to be not a healthy state of mind,
I think one would have to be pretty obtuse to say those images are not glorifying weaponry. And my concern is that he is considering military service with the perspective that he will be handed a gun, be told "go git it", and then be doing just that.
What would happen to a guy with that mindset, upon finding out that what he is going to be "gittin" is a lot of basic training and orientation to authority. You'd hope he would understand what starting at the bottom means, especially in military, but I am in fear he doesn't have realistic expectations. I think he wants to be a "chip off the old block" and quickly. I can't help worrying he is too itchy on the trigger, and would think that is a bad, bad, thing should he enlist.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Dec 25, 2012 - 10:21pm PT
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Happie...
I've had the privilege to teach basic ice climbing to some very young Marines returning from recent tours in various recent hellholes. Officers and enlisted. Most saw some direct action.
While all of them seemed quite intelligent, they also had an almost uniform ingrained blind bravado like I've never seen before. Very much "into firearms" and totally gung-ho with an extremely aggressive attitude towards the "enemy" when those cold belay discussions turned into war stories.
Nice kids mind you but it appeared their hard experiences in real combat did not diminish their zeal for killing "the enemy". They seemed to take direction extremely well, even from me. I'd imagine they will all continue to do well in the field of combat assuming their luck holds out. What struck me the most was how 'cold' they were about fallen friends. "Sucks., but they knew what they were getting into" was a common refrain. They might not feel that way 20 years from now when they're 45. I don't know.
So I don't know the 18yr old you do, but I wouldn't worry too much about his bravado or boasting at this point. That kind of aggression and attitude can be a bit surprising but I think maybe it's required if real combat is something he seeks.
Our government puppets continue to stoke the war machine abroad for God knows what end. As long as that continues, brave young men will continue to fuel those engines with their blood. It's always been that way.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Dec 25, 2012 - 10:23pm PT
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A substantial number of guys with the "git some" attitude go through a profound change when they experience a fight that yields gory death.
Not a guy I'd want on my six.
Saw this beauty. It is made for competition not combat (though in a pinch);
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=323444625
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Dec 25, 2012 - 10:59pm PT
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Merry X-mas Coz...
No offense intended. I just feel very strongly about our brave men not being where they are currently deployed. Seems like such a waste of young souls to me.
But that's another thread....
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Dec 26, 2012 - 08:28am PT
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Little boys like guns and blowing sh#t up. it's human nature. If a little but has no gun to play with he will pick up a rock or a hammer an smash sh#t with it. The little girl on the otherhand will more likly play with dolls.
We are one of the most the most fcked up species on the planet,,,
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
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Dec 26, 2012 - 10:22am PT
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Ih my nephew had been a kid like this over the years it wouldn't be of concern, but it is only over the last few months. His dad came back in July or so and I am guessing his son heard first-hand what he was seeing go on over there, or at least it was alluded to. But it was as he was readying to head back over that this weaponry stuff started.
I worry it is more about a young man and his absent father than playing Let's Blowing Sh#t Up.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Dec 26, 2012 - 11:00am PT
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It's not unusual for young men to glorify military power and look to it as a solution for the things in the world that deeply bother them. Is it healthy? hmm.. compared to what? Being a young man is not exactly the healthiest state of being in the best cases. They drive too fast, climb with reckless abandon, party too much and all the rest of the things that go with being in your late teens to early 20s. None of it is fun to watch for the older family members who care about them.
Most of us survived it and didnt make unrecoverable mistakes.
He may indeed enlist. It may be exactly what he should do. While it is a risky job it can be a pretty decent way for a young man to grow up and learn about life. Most do survive even in wartime. Perhaps with less trouble than they would have had out unsupervised in the regular world. If part of it is trying to understand or be closer in some way to his dad, he will certainly understand a lot more from it.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Dec 26, 2012 - 11:14am PT
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Read a report the other day by a Phd that said 90 percent of mass shooters are on psychotropic drugs. I didn't see that link but here's a story about that story.
"A website called SSRI Stories has compiled a sortable database that lists over 4800 incidents of suicide, violent crimes and other incidents between 1988 and 2011, including school shootings that involve people that were prescribed SSRI medications. Here is a short list of a few more school shootings that involved SSRIs:
Steve Kazmierczak, age 27, inexplicably went on a shooting rampage on Feb. 15, 2008 in a Northern Illinois University Lecture Hall before taking his own life. He had been on Prozac, Xanax and Ambien, but had stopped taking Prozac a few weeks before the shootings. Toxicology reports showed traces of Xanax in his system. Five dead, 20 wounded.
Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather’s girlfriend and many fellow students in Red Lake, Minnesota on March 24, 2005. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.
Cho-Seung-Hui, age 23, showed signs of anger before he went on a shooting rampage on the Virginia Tech campus that ended only after a police officer shot him dead. Officials said prescription medications related to the treatment of psychological problems had been found among Mr. Cho’s effects, but no details of his treatment or the medications have been released to the public. 33 dead, 17 wounded.
Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky on Dec, 1, 1997. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded.
Violence involving SSRIs does not always involve firearms:
Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic’s file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.
Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil). After five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.
John Odgren, age 16, stabbed a 15-year-old student to death at Lincoln-Sudbury Regional High School in MA on Jan. 19, 2007. Odgren was being treated for Asperger's syndrome, a form of autism, as well as attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, depression and anxiety. The defense said changes in Odgren's clothing habits, as well as changes in his sleep and speech pattern, may have indicated a problem with his medication that could have lead to a manic, paranoid state.
The list of incidents like the above on SSRI stories is seemingly endless and all of the circumstances are different except for one – all of them involve a mentally ill patient on some sort of SSRI medication. ........"
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froodish
Social climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 26, 2012 - 11:52am PT
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What struck me the most was how 'cold' they were about fallen friends. "Sucks., but they knew what they were getting into"
How is that different than what you hear from any other humans that are around death frequently? The gallows humor among emergency room nurses/doctors, or even climbers for instance. It's a way of coping.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Dec 26, 2012 - 11:54am PT
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Well I already said guards in schools was a bad idea on many levels.
I'm a big Ron Paul fan.
But jghedge betrays his ignorance on the subject of collecting guns if he thinks non-operable firearms retain their value.
They might be antiquated but shooting them can be fun.
I even wrote a thread about a single action Sharps competition I was in last year.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Dec 26, 2012 - 11:57am PT
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well thats fine Norton,, but why bag on those that do collect guns?
well, because after reading countless posts from people like you who offer NO solutions other than more guns, I guess I feel that I too have a right to offer my own opinions
and if it ruffles some feathers, well then so be it
edit: by the way, I also "collect guns" so I am not bagging on people who own guns
and Locker, I get your point that I like messing with my motorcycles
but surely you would agree that they are not the subject of discussion?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Dec 26, 2012 - 12:05pm PT
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There are 98,817 public schools in America, not counting Private ones.
There are 683,396 full time state, city, university and college, metropolitan and non-metropolitan county, and other law enforcement officers in the United States.
Think hiring another 100,000 cops would create a budget problem? Think you could save more than 20-30 lives a year (number of students gunned down) by spending over 10 billion dollars (conservatively) on new police
The NRA has a stupid problem (or actually, a beholden to the gun manufacturers problem)
peace
Karl
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Dec 26, 2012 - 12:24pm PT
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Moral problem, certainly....but stupidity is still the best descriptive word to explain their behavior.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
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Dec 26, 2012 - 12:31pm PT
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JHedge - About collectibles - As an example, I make hair accessories from vintage sewing buttons. My favorites are the ones which were designed in the advent of the industrial revolution, when artisans used the new electric tools to take their craft to a higher level, before the race to the cheapest began.
I pride, and use as a selling point, the fact that I do not alter the buttons to create the accessories, which most button crafters do. Altering them(cutting off shank, gluing to a backing) renders the button non-function in it's original purpose. It goes beyond diminishing their value as a collectible item, making them worthless except in the most rare of cases.
I would guess it is similar with guns.
About my nephew - Though I am still worried, I appreciate the perspective some of you guys have provided. I have decided that for now I will not say anything to my sister, unless she brings the topic up, and if she does, will refer her to those comments, which may help her as well. (Not saying that I think he is "AOkay, but that my fears have been put in another perspective).
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Dec 26, 2012 - 12:50pm PT
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I said for historical or display purposes, not for resale
LOL
It is so much fun to converse with knowledgeable individuals!
My mom was a guide at the Metropolitan Museum, owners of the most valuable firearms in history, the dueling pistols that were presented to Catherine The Great.
You ougtta give them a call and explain why they should render those beauties inoperable!
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