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RDB
Social climber
wa
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Apr 11, 2012 - 08:21pm PT
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This month marks the first part of a series the QA engineers will be doing on realistic gear lifespan, essentially exploring the concept that gear, no matter how well designed and constructed, doesn't last forever. First off, they'll focus on ice tool picks. Stay tuned for the next installment on crampons in a couple of weeks.
I had mentioned this BD post elsewhere. If you can't make good enough gear simply start a propaganda campaign saying it is "OK". The best lies are half truth. Say it enough and people start believing it. Sheeple make great customers.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 11, 2012 - 08:24pm PT
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Is Yvon's next book to be titled Let My People Spin?
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Gene
climber
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Apr 11, 2012 - 08:26pm PT
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Is Yvon's next book to be titled Let My People Spin?
Let My People Turf
g
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aforslund
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Apr 11, 2012 - 08:47pm PT
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Slightly OT:
The pick test they show only pulls/flexes the tip along the vertical axis. They don't torque/twist the pick as it would be when placed in a thin crack.
Wonder why?
Ohh...Because they break easier than others.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Apr 11, 2012 - 09:20pm PT
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It's also not 5 degrees in the test booth.
Some metals (esp stainless btw) exhibit vastly different characteristics at different temperatures.
FWIW I've always marveled at just how god damn tough most chromoly crampons are. The abuse I've given over 3 pairs of old Saberteeth crampons certainly should have broken or bent at least one. At over 260 pounds (with pack) I've broken every kind of gear in alpine environments you can imagine but never a crampon.
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miwuksurfer
Social climber
Mi-Wuk
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Apr 11, 2012 - 09:42pm PT
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Well then, you better "upgrade to stainless" and see what you've been missing.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Apr 12, 2012 - 09:09am PT
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Yeah. Get crackin'.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Apr 12, 2012 - 10:40am PT
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Another thing for BD or any other idiot corporate drone that hasn't been there can chew on.
Anyone who has worn crampons in alpine steepness knows that a catastrophic crampon frame failure at the wrong time will probably result in death. How many times have we stared down a 40-50 degree bullet-hard slope knowing that self arrest is but a fantasy? Can't hammer pickets in and screws would just pull out anyway so we run it out. For miles.
In steep alpine climbing, crampons are so much more critical than any other piece of gear I can think of. Sacrificing ANY reliability for weight in this application is simply not acceptable. Saberteeth fall into this catagory of alpine crampon. If BD wishes to categorize them as "ultralight" and lump them in with the rest of the aluminum frame sh#t out there then so be it. But that must be clearly stated.
On vertical water ice you can argue about multiple points of contact and protecting more often. Even this argument is fantasy for anyone who has ever climb hard ice. Runouts are required as there simply isn't protection much of the time.
Nothin' new to the folks who actually climb but maybe the Board of Directors at BD needs a little education..
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ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
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Apr 12, 2012 - 12:40pm PT
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Interesting that Oakm never came back and answered RDBs question.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Apr 12, 2012 - 12:44pm PT
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Fear, I do not think that is fair.
They have some climbers.
Thing is; if you drink enough of the Kool-aid and you are not the one with the failure,...
(repeat after me, "our crampons rock!")
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RDB
Social climber
wa
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Apr 12, 2012 - 12:47pm PT
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In BD's case no shortage of real, no sh#t, alpine and ice climbers on staff including Metcalf and Belcourt. What ever else you might want to say...attacking their climbing creditials isn't admirable or justified
And they aren't even the tiny tip of the iceberg when it comes to the obvious climbing talent employeed by BD. They know what and how crampons are used.
Metcalf is of course also on the BOD. When the discussion turns to horizontal stainless crampon reliability, just has to beg the question. Why are they still breaking?
Oakm?
Same story here:
http://www.iceclimbingforums.com/showthread.php?8764-Petzl-Lynx&p=64498#post64498
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RDB
Social climber
wa
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Apr 12, 2012 - 01:24pm PT
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"I bet the BD staff does not use the Sabertooths, aren't horizontals out of fashion?"
I suspect you are right for the most part. But below is Belcourt soloing WI3 in a pair of the then new Sabers a few winters back. Out of fashion or not I'd have bet it been annoying if his Sabers had fallen off, as I sure wasn't going to catch them :)
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 12, 2012 - 02:06pm PT
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That's WI3? ;-)
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RDB
Social climber
wa
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Apr 12, 2012 - 02:34pm PT
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Reilly it is Utah after all...so call it a "soft" 3, I certainly didn't want to fall off ;-)
This aint. Another common BD employee crampon testing ground including being soloed.
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Apr 12, 2012 - 03:25pm PT
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Nice shot! AoF.
Rumor has it that the BD warrenty guy solo'd that thing about 5 days in a row or some such.
Bill changes his jacket when he solos laps on the local 5p WI 3 here so he doesn't bum out the folks he's lapping.
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ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
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Apr 13, 2012 - 11:14am PT
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Bump. Still waiting for BD and Oakm to respond.
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Gene
climber
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Apr 13, 2012 - 06:23pm PT
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It’s worth mentioning that as Kolin and his team were developing this post over the past few weeks (which is the culmination of years of testing and documentation), we became aware of some discussions in a couple online climbing forums and blogs filled with rumors and misinformation about BD crampons and the people who work here. We watched the discussion—dominated by a handful of posters with well-documented personal vendettas against us—devolve into a series of irrational personal attacks, lies paraded as insider knowledge, and misleading and bullying of fellow forum members who voiced support for BD or asked for facts to support the claims. As the vitriol became more and more erratic, personal and baseless, we realized it would be best not to engage in such dialogue that is unconstrained by facts or respect.
Paragraph 3 from above link.
Oh, my!!!!!!!!!
g
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Apr 13, 2012 - 06:39pm PT
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more weak sauce
Translation;
We at Bleak Diamond would prefer not to be asked difficult questions regarding our candor, reliability or ethical responsibility, but would rather post carefully spun press releases that color our detractors poorly without actually responding to the issues they raise.
(Yvon, where are you when we need you? Oh well, I hope the steelhead are biting.)
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