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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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The code is about much more than any one individual , it has direct impact on everyone in military service. Something anyone in combat needs to know they can rely on. Future POWS really need to know it.
AT the most basic level It saves lives
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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So Reilly, no useful information to be gained from this guy now that they have him?
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John M
climber
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the CNN link says Fazl.. with an L.. not an i. "was wanted".. not "is wanted" as your post states. That is a considerable difference. Perhaps as has been stated, they had no proof. We had nothing we could hold him on but suspicions.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Yeah, so what? Let him stay on duty with the phukking Taliban.
Thank you Judge Bean.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Climbski, the UCMJ does not contain any verbage that says we are bound to
go get a deserter. It only deals with the definitions and the prosecution.
screidic, I don't see where Bergdahl would have much actionable intel.
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John M
climber
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Innocent until proven guilty..
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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It's a deeper code than the UCMJ.
Ron--would you really have left him to die in an emergency though?
Like I said to Reilly I do suspect Bowe should be facing court-martial. But it does not change my opinion that we had to get him back first.
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John M
climber
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.I guess some of you would have just folded and welcomed him back open arms to the crew eh?
Nope.. you guessed wrong. But then this is a different case requiring a trial. Your case did not require a trial.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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^^^^^^ +1 here. Apples and oranges Ron. Apples and oranges.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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After taking several pics, him not even being able to come to, i fired him the very next morning.
Oooooooo damn, you're so strong and commanding!
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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It's deeper than the UCMJ.
No it isn't. It was a PR move that has gone wrong. If I were still in
the Navy getting this guy back would not make me feel warm and fuzzy.
He went willingly so he isn't one of us any more. Now that he is back
I would feel very indignant if he were not prosecuted to the fullest intent
of the UCMJ.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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I really can understand that sentiment, I can even understand the sentiment of summary execution if you found him. I DO not agree with the sentiment of letting the enemy do our job for us. He's ours.. hero or criminal.. ours either way. Not theirs.
Yep it's an Ugly situation for sure.. but the only noble or worthwhile way through it is to do the right thing. In this case we got the opportunity to get him back , an opportunity that could not honorably be ignored.
This is all deep stuff.. it's why this is such a major issue for so many people.
RON for this one guy perhaps in an isolated universe I might agree with you.. but the future is at stake too and future POWs and the current military personel. Regardless how they feel about Bowe they at least know that if something happens "leave none behind" means something.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Somehow as a PR move, even with how it seems to be going, I don't think it went wrong. At a minimum, we are not talking about the VA clusterF#@k anymore.
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John M
climber
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Principles are sometimes not easy things to stand up for. He hasn't been convicted in a court of law, therefore he isn't a deserter. He is innocent until proven guilty. We don't know why he left. How would you feel if it was your brother and he went crazy and left his post? Would you want him left over there because he is just a lousy deserter? I'm not excusing this guy. I am defending a principle.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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F*#kin' aaa John.
Somebody gave me sh#t for saying ron would come down as the hanging judge. Me n my gawdamn crystal ball.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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+1 Well said john
Another question is this.. If an error is to be made in a decision on what side of principle do you wish to hedge your bet? Especially useful thought to consider when there is no "clean" decision to be made.
In this case we have the principle of "fuuck the assh0le" vs "leave none behind"
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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John M < +1 for me again. Nice summation.
And climbski2 makes a good point. Even with our system, more than enough people who were innocent are put in jail. With the new testing, this has been proven. Give the guy His day in court.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Whilst catching up here at lunch I saw this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_hostage_crisis
That was the beginning of this entire current shetfest story in that entire region.
This was not the beginning, not by a long shot. You have to go back to the Arab Revolt in WWI. That's when the British and French laid the seeds of this current debacle.
Another question is this.. If an error is to be made in a decision on what side of principle do you wish to hedge your bet? Especially useful thought to consider when there is no "clean" decision to be made.
As a schoolboy in Indiana, I was taught that the basis of our system of justice was that it was better for a guilty man to go free, than for an innocent man to be punished.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Meh.. go back a thousand years of local tribal history perhaps while at it.
Graveyard of Empires ..Indeed.
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Great thing about the innernets is that now we can get rid of the court system, military and civilian altogether. Convictions on social media may just be the wave of the future... seems fair to me.
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