oh, brave new world...(OT)

**In 1996, an armed organization calling itself the Kosovo Liberation Army or KLA launched an insurgency with guerilla attacks on Serbian security forces and killing and kidnapping civilians. The stated cause for the rebellion was the struggle for human rights.

The KLA was financed by the Albanian diaspora from Western Europe, with funds that may have come from Albanian organized crime organizations involved in drug trafficking. The collapse of the Ponzi schemes in neighboring Albania brought people to streets. Many arms stockpiles were expropriated and weapons from them smuggled over mountainous border to the KLA. The ethnic Serbian Yugoslav security forces stationed in Kosovo would often found themselves besieged in towns they were ordered to held until their replacements arrived at the end of the month. By the Spring of 1998, the KLA controlled one third of the province. Belgrade decided that it had had enough and launched an offensive, deploying army tanks and sending reinforcements (many of them veterans of wars in Croatia and Bosnia).** The offensive was a temporary success and the KLA almost defeated. Many Albanian civilain refugees were forced to find shelter in the forests through the Spring and Summer of 1998. This situation reminded many on the brutal ethnic cleansing in Bosnia. Some observers offered a "wag the dog" explanation in which U.S. President Bill Clinton, then facing impeachment becuase of the Lewinsky scandal, hyped the human rights crisis to divert American attention and win a quick victory in international affairs. Other observers believe that he treated the crisis with the seriousness it deserved, given the horrors of the Bosnian War.

Don't lecture me on the rights of a woman, I never mentioned anything of the sort. I never mentioned denying a woman any 'rights'. I was simply arguing that a fetus is more than 'medical waste', that can be burned for fuel like a bad liver or a cancer riddled organ.

Maybe human life that is destroyed should be treated with some respect.

It doesn't matter what ethnicity or religion it's all about, the fascist bastards need to be identified and never forgotten. Not all Serbs are bastards obviously but my old neighbour was, despite being a swell guy to hang with. Apparently even the Bhuddists are right now demonstrating that even they can be fascist bastards.

Don't think for a second that I will not ride your ass into the ground on this Bluey. Capitulate or bring forth unchallengeable empirical evidence.

Take no prisoners

I was inclined to give you a pass earlier. Not anymore.

Look, you have not "argued" anything; you've done nothing but spout off with completely unsubstantiated "opinions."

And then when pressed, you punt and say that NO account of the soul even COULD be given. What's pathetic about that position is two-fold:

1) You seem to actually think that this punt makes your "opinion" as good as any other "opinion" out there. But it is NOT the case that "everybody's opinion is valid" (like, just because they hold it), or some crap like that. SOME opinions are flagrantly ridiculous, regardless of that fact that somebody believes them; and yours certainly SEEMS to fit that category. So, you don't get a pass with your punt.

2) A rigorous and plausible account CAN be given, and I even opened the door WIDE for you to offer a non-empirical case. Kant has done it. Nagel has done it. There's even a reasonable theological case that can be made (not by mainstream Christians, however!).

Of course, a reasonable theological case would, to my mind, merely provide some basis for a person to believe in the sacredness of the fetus; but that doesn't make ANY case for legislation! You claim to not be saying anything about legislation, but that's pretty disingenuous, given the nature of this thread.

In short, you have contributed nothing of substance to this discussion, yet you act like you have a valid view. Based on your discussion here, however, you DON'T.

You are unread, untutored, apparently pretty thoughtless on the subject, and nevertheless strongly opinionated. This is the worst possible combination in a civilized society!

Isn't your "period time" the only time you can get pregnant? So why not refrain being active at that time, I wonder?

Why wouldn't you expect a "birth control" PILL to effect that timing?

Ovulation can be calculated by starting with the first day of the last menstrual period (LMP) or by calculating 12-16 days from the next expected period. Most women ovulate anywhere between Day 11 – Day 21 of their cycle, counting from the first day of the LMP.

Outlawing abortion will NOT end abortions; it would only take us back to unsafe, dirty procedures for those who have the capacity to follow through, and forced servitude for those who lack the resources.

Maybe keeping them to the first trimester, but c'mon.

Think that would actually be acceptable to Mullah bookmar?

And why should we stop there if the zygote has a soul and all?

MB1, I gave my opinions. Lighten up. Someone asked, I gave my opinions. This a forum where many things are discussed, and opinions are offered.

Unsubstantiated opinions on this subject in particular are profoundly dangerous to this society. Let the religious right get its way on this one, and the floodgates of oppression will open....

Bluey, think of it this way. If you don't rank opinions by way of quality then why not just spin a bottle to chose one?

No one does that so the fact is is that everyone does in fact rank opinion including yourself. the question is how. There is method available that can predictably make the best choices, and there is also method that is well known and proven to make the worst choices.

One of the worst is to agree with an opinion because the person who holds it expresses themselves with confidence of certainty, so long as it supports your own bias, while providing no credible weighting of evidence which requires consideration of alternatives. That is how Hitler persuaded people - by charisma and lies.

If a person can't understand what I'm saying by the time they are a half century old, I doubt they will and quite literally I doubt you ever will. There is something stubbornly belligerent about your position that is only admirable to an authoritarian personality.

You obviously care about these things otherwise you wouldn't be so assertive. It is bizarrely perplexing that you would care yet not care why. Regardless the resultant gross error in your decisions is obvious. To place the moral culpability of the Serbs equal to their neighbours with such a flagrant conflation of fact is a prime example of bias corruption.

How about this: Bookworm has abandoned his own thread, one he has cared for almost singlehandedly for a year or something. Things suddenly get a little challenging and his silence is deafening.

Is that a yes I can, a no I can't or is it a no I won't ?

Explaining yourself is a form of respect. Refusal to explain is the opposite.