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Al_Smith
climber
San Francisco, CA
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Feb 28, 2013 - 11:49am PT
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Another interesting observation...
While this may have been pointed out already elsewhere in this thread (I haven't had the time to read through all the posts, only the register itself), its a puzzle nonetheless...
In Camp 4 Roper tells the following story:
”We did Sentinel in eight and a half hours, strolling into Camp 4 well before dark, disguising our tiredness with a jaunty swagger. Robbins strode over to our table with a bottle of champagne in his hand. ’That was well done, you guys! I watched you all day. Congratulations! Drink up!’ We found this act commendable indeed. Sacherer, an unsophisticated lad, took his first-ever sip of bubbly, scrunched up his face and said, ”It tastes like Coke.”
“Robbins had been generous, but he was not about to allow two twenty-year-old punks to retain the Sentinel speed record. He politely waited a full day before swinging into action. Then it was our turn to watch through binoculars as he and Tom Frost raced up the wall, often climbing simultaneously, the first time this tactic had ever been done on a big climb. Three hours and fifteen minutes after starting, they stood on the summit. They nonchalantly strolled into camp in time for a late lunch. So shocked was I by this feat that I neglected to buy champagne.”
So, in Roper's account, he has Robbins 'waiting a whole day' before swinging into action.
The register lists the two climber's ascents as being several months apart...
Pratt & Roper - 5/18/66 - Time of 8 hours
Royal Robbins - 9/9/66 - 3 hrs, 35 minutes
It could be a transcription error, an error on my part in reading the entries, or it could be possible that in the romanticized memory of Roper that Robbins pulled such a grand feat. It's also possible I suppose that Roper - like all great story tellers - had presented (whether intentionally or subconsciously) the tale with the timing the way he did in order to provide the reader not just with the facts of the Valley happenings, but also in a way that would capture the essence of the incredible momentum of guys knocking off harder and harder climbs in better and better style all within a marvelously condensed time frame.
I do notice that Clint Cummins has these two ascents listed above as being one day apart. So perhaps Robbins' register transcription is off, but some other more formal record (would there be one more formal than the register itself? Maybe Roper's written notebook history?) has it more accurately recorded?
It would make sense for Robbins to go right out and make that climbing statement the next day while the challenge was still fresh, but why would Robbins himself enter it into the register incorrectly...especially given that it was HIS feat?
Regardless of the facts, its a sort of compelling question...
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le_bruce
climber
Oakland, CA
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Feb 28, 2013 - 02:17pm PT
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That is an interesting observation, A_S. I like Roper's version, hope it isn't apocryphal, but I wouldn't mind it if it were.
Had no idea that the Steck-Sal went unrepeated for 3 years after the FA.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Feb 28, 2013 - 05:52pm PT
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Al_Smith,
So, in Roper's account, he has Robbins 'waiting a whole day' before swinging into action.
The register lists the two climber's ascents as being several months apart...
Pratt & Roper - 5/18/66 - Time of 8 hours
Royal Robbins - 9/9/66 - 3 hrs, 35 minutes
No.
You seem to think the speed ascents mentioned in the Camp Four book were in 1966.
They were in 1961.
They are in my transcription/edit, but not in the register scans (they are apparently on the "missing original page").
This is probably the source of confusion.
Registers are often incomplete, as some people don't sign in, or pages go missing/unreadable.
Roper's (1961) partner was Frank Sacherer, not Chuck Pratt.
Robbins' partner was Tom Frost, not solo:
Steve Roper, Frank Sacherer, 15A, 8.5 hours, 9/1961
Royal Robbins, Tom Frost, 16A, 3 hours 14 minutes (simulclimbing), 9/1961
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BBA
climber
OF
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Feb 28, 2013 - 06:44pm PT
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In the 3 hr 14 min trip it was Robbins fourth time up, and for Frost his second. IMHO that says a lot less than the time of Roper and Sacherer doing it on sight in a day, considering the state of hardware and lack of route knowledge. First time and on sight makes a big difference.
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Al_Smith
climber
San Francisco, CA
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Feb 28, 2013 - 07:03pm PT
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Clint - Thanks for clearing that up for me. I had assumed that I must have somehow been mistaken.
The two times - 8 hrs and 3:35 - being listed by those two climbers within months of each other was close enough to the account in Camp 4 that I had mistakenly assumed those were the ascents in question.
I suppose that if nothing else, its interesting that both men repeated their two times 5 years later (but with different partners or solo) and still decided to record their now (in Roper's case w/ a partner anyway) obsolete times in the summit register.
(Note: I don't mean 'obsolete' in a negative sense, as I obviously couldn't even get up the N Face of Sentinel if there were a million dollars and Penelope Cruz waiting for me on the summit but that's a different tangent altogether...)
Cheers and thanks, Al
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Al_Smith
climber
San Francisco, CA
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Feb 28, 2013 - 07:07pm PT
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Also, Steve Grossman - Thanks for scanning this and posting it up. What an absolute treasure this is to behold.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Feb 28, 2013 - 07:10pm PT
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As i recall the summit register was papyrus and took blood much better than ink.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Feb 28, 2013 - 07:54pm PT
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Started reading through the whole thing; I'm only up to '75. Amazing how
many old homies' names are in there. It seems like Julie Brugger and Nancy
Marcquardt were the first 'girls'? Hard to believe Tex Bossier didn't do it
until '75 but he did it in good company - Tom Frost.
It was also odd that right after John Marts and Jim Langdon did it in '70
the next ascent was by an Egon and Joanna Marts with Robbins.
HaHaHa - Dave Anderson did the W Face with Karl Kayala and said of his good
buddy Bruce Carson "How the f*#k ?!? did Carson nut the 10th pitch?"
(referring, of course, to Bruce's hammerless solo the year before)
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Feb 28, 2013 - 09:21pm PT
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Bill,
In the 3 hr 14 min trip it was Robbins fourth time up, and for Frost his second. IMHO that says a lot less than the time of Roper and Sacherer doing it on sight in a day, considering the state of hardware and lack of route knowledge. First time and on sight makes a big difference.
I agree that it's hard to set a speed record onsight.
However, there are 2 ascents missing from the transcribed register.
Steve Roper might have been on one of them, prior to his speed record.
Although he also had good speed, so he may have been onsight.
Since he knew about the 14 prior ascents, he would be a logical person to ask about the 2 missing ascents.
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Feb 28, 2013 - 11:12pm PT
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Yes, as I said way upthread, Roper has the old original
register. He and I often got on the phone, and he
would read various entries to me... I'm still unclear as to how
this version came into being, without that original version?
Or did Royal copy from that original one? Maybe Steve could clarify. I
admit I'm a little slow probably...
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Feb 28, 2013 - 11:35pm PT
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Pat,
Yes, as Steve Grossman described,
Steve Roper got the register pictured here in 1993 from Yvon Chouinard,
after Ray Olsen found it in Yvon's attic.
This version of the register had the data through 1963 transcribed by Royal Robbins from an earlier register.
When I referred to the "missing original page", I meant this earlier register. The one Royal transcribed from.
It appears to have been missing a page with ascents from 8/1960 to 10/1961,
since those were not in Royal's transcription that we see here.
The handwriting in Royal's later register entries matches the handwriting in the transcribed entries.
For example, he dots capital I, and the R is partially cursive.
The 29 SEP 1963 entry appears to be signed by Al Steck and Dick Long, so I wonder if Royal finished the transcription shortly after that ascent, and had them sign it before he placed it on the summit?
It looks like Royal added more transcriptions/entries (in pencil, from Sep 63 and Sep/Oct 64) in Oct 1964 when they did several trips up to fix lines for filming the West Face. Perhaps he discovered a second temporary register, and merged it with the one he had earlier transcribed.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Steve Roper, Frank Sacherer, 15A, 8.5 hours, 9/1961
Royal Robbins, Tom Frost, 16A, 3 hours 14 minutes (simulclimbing), 9/1961
These must be the correct dates as I know that Frank did not do any climbing in 1965 later than June when I met him. I hiked up to the base of Half Dome with another girl who worked at Curry as Frank and Chuck were going to try for a speed ascent of HD. They woke up late and then Chuck half heartedly fiddled around on the first pitch, and then they called it quits and he and the other girl took of down the trail while Frank and I did the cable route up Half Dome. That was Frank's last attempt at serious rock climbing in the Valley. We spent every weekend after that up in the meadows.
Later in the fall he and I tried climbing together a few times and in early November we were married. From then on, he was totally immersed in physics except for weekend trips to hang out with friends or hike in the Valley. He didn't rock climb again until the spring of 1970 on the Saleve outside Geneva.
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Dave Davis
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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I believe Reilly, that Ms. Brugger climbed Sentinel with Larry Marquardt, a climber from Boulder that she climbed with quite a bit back then. Did he sign his name Nancy or do you need some new glasses?
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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"Larry" does look a lot like "nancy" here - handwriting can be tricky!
Doesn't look that much like "Nancy", though.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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I remember when Steve Wunsch and McHardy did the SS. Steve told me that Richard said he would bring the gear. Steve questioned him about why he thought that 6 or 7 nuts was sufficient for the task. Richard's response....well you see mate, too much kit lowers me standard.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Dave, as we all know we often see what we want to see. But I'm not good at
deciphering cursive. In Russian cursive his 'Larry' looks like 'Ratsu'. :-)
I'm sure Julie had no problems on the SS.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Great thread. Another history bump
PS Definitely looks like "Larry" to me.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 1, 2013 - 10:53am PT
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I like that Fred's wife free soloed the thing behind Bruce and Dave! With a potted plant in her rucksack no less...
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Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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With joy, I discovered the name of my uncle, Dick Brown, included in the list of names for the 19 October 1963 accent of Circular Staircase by the Loma Prieta Rock Climbing Section from Palo Alto.
Here he is about 1962 along a Cathedral Range traverse with my dad.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 26, 2013 - 02:13pm PT
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We came
We climbed
We scribbled
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