Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
|
|
|
Nov 18, 2010 - 12:32am PT
|
|
|
Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
|
|
|
Nov 18, 2010 - 12:37am PT
|
|
|
Fritz
Trad climber
Hagerman, ID
|
|
|
Nov 18, 2010 - 12:38am PT
|
I really hate to step into this morass of a thread---but I have some different stories.
Growing up in Central Idaho during the 1950’s and 60’s: there were no predators bigger than a Badger to fear.
Badgers never figured out that “Whitey” (that’s us folks) was the predator to run from-----I was rushed several times by badgers while I was “packing heat” and I could never do anything but outrun the damn things. (Those of you who laugh, have not had a Badger attack you: hissing and growling.)
So----other than Badgers and the occasional rabid creature, in Idaho: “Whitey” was the supreme and feared predator.
In the early 90’s we gave some beers to a couple Forest Service Wilderness Rangers that visited our camp on a Middle Fork Salmon float- trip. One had been stalked by a cougar. He nervously told us that he: “felt just like a mouse might feel with a house cat.”
He bounced a rock off the adolescent cougar’s nose and escaped.
Around 2000, black bear attacks in the Frank Church Wilderness in central Idaho started getting serious.
Here is the scariest published story to date: http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1129&dat=20020725&id=D4kNAAAAIBAJ&sjid=RnADAAAAIBAJ&pg=5001,3730836
There are no wolf-human attacks yet, but people are being cautioned not to take dogs into the mountains, for fear of inciting attacks.
I’ve been carrying Pepper-spray for daytime and large caliber pistols for night-use since about 2000. That big flash-boom does light up the night-------and tends to scare stuff away.
It is not the “good old days for Whitey” in the mountains of Idaho anymore.
When I read Base104's posts: I realize he is talking wild Alaska truth.
In the 70's and 80's my friends that wanted "wild, dangerous, and unspoiled" moved to Alaska.
Idaho was not: "dangerous and unspoiled" from about 1900 to now. Why the hell should I want it to go back to "dangerous" to make a few outsiders quiver in joy?
Push us and you will find we locals believe in: The 3-S’s------“Shoot, Shovel, & Shut Up.”
Oh! By the way. I'm a liberal tree-hugger. (by Idaho standards)
|
|
atchafalaya
climber
Babylon
|
|
|
Nov 18, 2010 - 01:11am PT
|
Base, cool photos and posts.
|
|
Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
|
|
|
Nov 18, 2010 - 01:12am PT
|
|
|
Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
|
|
|
Nov 18, 2010 - 01:13am PT
|
|
|
Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
|
|
|
Nov 18, 2010 - 01:14am PT
|
|
|
Captain...or Skully
Big Wall climber
leading the away team, but not in a red shirt!
|
|
|
Nov 18, 2010 - 01:15am PT
|
Good stuff, Base104.
We're doomed, man. We're ALL gonna DIE!
Other than that, everything's normal. Oh, yeah, that's normal, too.
Carry on.
|
|
Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
|
|
|
Nov 18, 2010 - 01:19am PT
|
|
|
Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
|
|
|
Nov 18, 2010 - 01:21am PT
|
rox
whose post or link says that they are threatened by wolves at home? just curious....
|
|
Captain...or Skully
Big Wall climber
leading the away team, but not in a red shirt!
|
|
|
Nov 18, 2010 - 01:48am PT
|
Yargle bargle?
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Nov 18, 2010 - 01:56am PT
|
CMac needs to start putting out Cliff Notes to these serial killer threads
for us slow readers to keep up. I'm starting to get my 'missles' and wolves mixed up!
|
|
Captain...or Skully
Big Wall climber
leading the away team, but not in a red shirt!
|
|
|
Nov 18, 2010 - 01:59am PT
|
Dude, the wolves fired a missile at the Ark on the Moon. I think it's the Commies fault. Or Dead Cats. Or pirates. Or Fattrad's.
Freaky, huh?
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Nov 18, 2010 - 02:02am PT
|
I'm so gonna PM Dr Sprock to get this all cleared up!
|
|
Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
|
|
|
Nov 18, 2010 - 05:09am PT
|
The photo of the pack above is either an anomaly or photoshop, and if that pack truly is that size, I have no doubt it is being reduced by FWP.
Wolf packs up to thirty members are unusual …but not rare. An alpha female’s annual litter may be six to eight (or more) pups. The alpha pair will ordinarily mate exclusively with each other so long as they both remain alphas. There are times when one of the alphas will attempt to mate with a subordinate wolf, and if the other alpha is unable to prevent it …multiple litters can be born in one year.
This occurs mostly in large packs with plenty of available prey.
Larger packs with many young members coming into maturity will break up and disperse without interference from FWS. Dominance fighting is more common in the spring months, when mating occurs. Alpha wolves may be killed or driven away when other members turn against them. Pack size is in wide flux at that time of year.
Angus Theurmer,of Jackson Hole News, who occasionally posts as “Anguish” on ST, recently reported on a new 22 member pack in Gros Ventre range SE of Jackson Hole.
Canis Lupus Occidentalis subspecies pack sizes are generally 6–12 wolves, with some packs as large as 20–30. Territory size averages 600 square miles (1,600 km2). Wolf packs in Yellowstone average 9.2 adult wolves with an average territory of 348-square-mile (900 km2), while wolf packs in Idaho average 11.1 adults and 364-square-mile (940 km2) territories.
--- From: International Wolf Center
Average pack size is five to six wolves for the Canis Lupus Nubilus subspecies
International Wolf Center. Wolves Around the World: 1997 Update. Ely, MN: International Wolf Center; 1996.
EDIT: In 2001, there existed a 37 member pack (Mackenzie Valley subspecies) in Yellowstone...according to SPECIES ASSESSMENT FOR GRAY WOLF IN WYOMING, Carron Meaney, and DR. Gary P. Beauvais.
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
|
Nov 18, 2010 - 05:15am PT
|
Good for them!
|
|
Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
|
|
|
Nov 18, 2010 - 05:17am PT
|
EDIT: as for the other photo, I too got it in an email...it said 127 lbs in the email...but I yet to find anything other than that email as a source...you'd think The Idaho FWP would have it mentioned somewhere, as the weight would be a record according to them.
Other photos of the Colson Creek wolf can be seen on several internet sites, for members not offended or upset by pics of slain animals. Here are two:
http://dalesdesigns.net/wolf2.htm
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f22/woofs-colson-creek-north-fork-salmon-63541/
The Colson Creek incident received some coverage in eastern Idaho papers…I don’t believe it was a hoax with altered photos. As Idaho Fish and Game investigated the incident, any exaggerating the weight and size of the animal could be called into question. Some Hunting and Fishing stories invite cynical scrutiny but a bona fide animal cadaver is cause for serious investigation. It was a collared animal so I presume the FWS examined and probably weighed the remains.
Canis Lupus Occidentalis males typically weigh between 100 and 145 pounds (45–65 kg). Only the Artic Wolves (Canis Lupus Arctos) are larger.
^ http://www.forwolves.org/ralph/wpages/1996idahowolves.htm
Canis Lupus Nubilus, also known as the Buffalo wolf, males weigh from 60 to 110 pounds.
---International Wolf Center. Wolves Around the World: 1997 Update. Ely, MN: International Wolf Center; 1996.
|
|
Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
|
|
|
Nov 18, 2010 - 11:24am PT
|
Now everybody in Idaho and Montana hates environmentalists. Or a lot of them.
One could certainly add Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico to this list, probably Utah as well.
In the long run, this may be one of the worst legacies of the wolf fiasco. By so over doing it with false information and end runs around state authorities, the word "environmentalist" has pretty much become a swear word in the mountain states.
This is truly a shame as more and more scientific knowledge and management will be required as the human population of the West continues to grow. Just when an environmental philosophy is needed most, it has been tainted by the radicals in the movement.
|
|
Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 18, 2010 - 11:41am PT
|
From the comments embedded in one of the responses on Jennie's link re: longrange hunting, the problem has now spilled over into Oregon.
Yummy! Lotsa' sheep in Oregon!
|
|
atchafalaya
climber
Babylon
|
|
|
Nov 18, 2010 - 04:42pm PT
|
"If I don't eventually see blood on the floor over this bullsh#t, and LAWS to prevent this from ever happening again, I will be completely dis-illusioned in any belief in the Federal Government, the courts, and the ability of good people to be allowed to control their lives, safe from the manipulations of big business and Big Government."
Prepare to be further "dis-illusioned". Can I become an expert on wolves if I move to idaho and search the internet for information on wolves?
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!