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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Nov 13, 2010 - 10:11pm PT
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Most likely was. The real question is who fired it?
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Nov 13, 2010 - 10:18pm PT
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More than likely we did and within the missile test zone.
The DoD just isn't admitting it yet. Perhaps they never will.
Truth is just an inconvenient burden, just doesn't seem to be necessary anymore.
Rome is Burning.
Whoever did it, they (as in the DoD) know, and that is for sure.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Nov 13, 2010 - 10:22pm PT
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I used to live in LA. One evening, probably late 60's early 70's, we saw this amazing missile going up, probably over the ocean (we were near Westwood, so it was hard to say how far away it was). It fully exploded and left a huge debris cloud in the sky. It hung up there for quite some time, then it got dark.
We all wondered what it was and looked in the news to see what they'd say. It was never mentioned ... No news helicopters flying around to film it, I guess.
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monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
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Nov 13, 2010 - 11:08pm PT
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After looking at how far south objective boy Klimmer put Santa Catalina island I thought I'd take a look.
Here's the opening shot of the vid, with the copter over Long Beach area.
So I tilted the harbor to get a similar look and start a line.
Now the overview of the harbor.
Lookee here Klim, it crosses the northernmost part of Santa Catalina Island and barely enters the huge permanent test zone.
Oh my god Klim, AFR673 from Tahiti to LAX is approaching the test zone. Should we alert NORAD?
Never mind, planes fly in the zone all the time, even overflying Vandenberg.
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 13, 2010 - 11:55pm PT
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"Dude, if you are looking for truth out of humans..............you are in for a long wait."
Humans always tell the truth that's why they're called human beings.
It's men who are in animalistic consciousness that think they are humans that lie.
True real human beings are very very rare in this age .....
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Nov 14, 2010 - 12:05am PT
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Mono,
You have a real issue with the truth and proper observation. Your line is drawn wildly wrong. Try measuring using a 360 degree protractor. I have one and used it to make all my measurements.
The view from the helicopter, across the Long Beach Harbor, across the South end tip of Palos Verdes Peninsula, and North of Catalina Island, and straight to the missile exhaust/vapor plume is 240 degrees.
The line you have drawn is not even close to that.
Using Ed's very nice graphic and work:
Edit:
I just measured your line and you drew it at 230 degrees. Very dishonest. Facts are a bummer.
Try lining it up again:
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monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
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Nov 14, 2010 - 12:11am PT
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Haha, I new you would try to exploit the noise. You really can't tell where to cross the piers.
Planes fly deep in the zone all the time. What's your freekin point?
BTW, San Pedro is not considered one of the communities of Palos Verdes Penninsula, certainly not according to Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palos_Verdes
Sure be sloppy, that's cool too.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Nov 14, 2010 - 12:12am PT
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hey Klimmer, your line is even closer to the aircraft in Mono's plot... so it seems even more likely to be that aircraft...
...and you proved it yourself!
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monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
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Nov 14, 2010 - 12:14am PT
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Yea, I could not get the tilted view just right. It's so close, only Klimmer would care. And we really don't know where to cross the piers and I was very generous to Klim crossing San Pedro Peninsula.
I tried to find a night view to match up the lights on the piers, but could not.
And Klimmer has yet to show us his tilted view and close ups. Why is that Klimmer?
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 14, 2010 - 12:19am PT
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monolith -- "What's your freekin point?"
klimmers point is he believes it's most likely a missile.
Your point is it's most likely a plane.
Yet neither of you have any real truth at hand other than theory and speculations.
Thus so simple to see you are arguing.
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monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
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Nov 14, 2010 - 12:20am PT
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Your so cute Werner.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Nov 14, 2010 - 12:22am PT
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Ed,
Try using a stereoscope and get back to me.
I provided the stereograms, no tricks, just real observation.
No matter how hard you want that exhaust/vapor plume to be coming toward the coast from the SW to NE, it isn't.
It is clearly going away from the coast at a W - WNW direction at a very steep angle and back-lit from the Sun. Sorry Ed. Facts are sometimes hard to deal with. But there you go.
Also you will note the clock-wise spinning exhaust/vapor plume. I even gave you an up close stereogram to view it in 3D. Note the emitted specular light from the engine that is facing toward the observer.
All images taken from this copy of the original video footage shot by KCAL:
Raw Video: Mystery Missile Appears over Southern California. Helicopter CAM "no audio"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAZLYn44FeQ&feature=related
'video shot by a KCBS/KCAL Cameraman Gil Leyvas News helicopter in Los Angeles that shows an object shooting across the sky and leaving a large contrail, or vapor trail, over the Pacific Ocean. Pentagon Can't Explain 'Missile' Off California Coast.
"Whatever it was, it was spinning up into the sky kind of like a spiral," and was easy to distinguish from condensation trails from jets, he said. "It was quite a sight to see. It was spectacular" said the cameraman.'
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monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
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Nov 14, 2010 - 12:30am PT
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Klim, I like how your pics show the lower portion of the contrail in the sun, and the upper shaded. Perfect for an easterly path as the aircraft is in the lower light area as the sun goes down, but of course that is just tea leaf tossing as well.
BTW, you don't need stereo view to see the circular patterns.
People will think it's spinning because of the circular nature of the contrail. But the vids sure don't show the actual object spinning.
And I've proven planes fly deep in the zone. Anybody repeat my experiment by loading up a the Flightwise tracking kml file.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Nov 14, 2010 - 12:42am PT
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dude , If you are looking for truth out of humans...you are in for a long wait....stick with the sheep and chickens...they never talk back or lie like a human might...
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Nov 14, 2010 - 12:43am PT
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Klim, I like how your pics show the lower portion of the contrail in the sun, and the upper shaded. Perfect for an easterly path as the aircraft is in the post sunset area.
BTW, you don't need stereo view to see the circular patterns.
Mono,
You just hung yourself. You are right. You do not need a stereoscope to clearly see the clock-wise spinning exhaust/vapor plume corkscrewing its way up into the atmosphere.
What you don't realize, because you are not using a stereoscope to view it, are the dark portions are toward the observer (you), and the sunlight portions are behind because it is getting back-lit by the setting Sun.
The missile is clearly going upward and away from the coast in a W - WNW direction.
Bingo.
Try getting a stereoscope. They are inexpensive.
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monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
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Nov 14, 2010 - 12:45am PT
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Like I said, you don't need stereo view to see the circular nature. But, of course, you can't see the actual object rotating or the immediate area after the object.
Klim, are we done with this stupid test zone stuff? I told you long ago it was silly. Would not have mattered where it was in the zone.
As Ed said, you debunked yourself and haven't really shown your work coming up with 240 degrees. I showed the tilted view and overview of the harbor, now show us yours.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Nov 14, 2010 - 01:03am PT
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Like I said, you don't need stereo view to see the circular nature. But, of course, you can't see the actual object rotating or the immediate area after the object.
Klim, are we done with this stupid test zone stuff? I told you long ago it was silly.
As Ed said, you debunked yourself and haven't really shown your work.
You do need a stereoscope to see depth and direction to know exactly how the plume is being illuminated by the Sun. That is why we have 2 eyes to see in stereo. Depth of field is vital for direction orientation. To ignore this, then you again are being dishonest.
Apparently, you spend time doing stupid stuff. This isn't stupid to me or to many people. The point is the people know what they saw, and TPTB are denying it. It really is pretty simple to figure out, but people like you throw out continual disinfo.
You know a great deal about me, what are you all about? What do you do? I really have to wonder.
Apparently, you think knowing the truth about things is silly.
I completely disagree.
I showed my work. Once again you are being dishonest. The image I marked up in green gives all the data. You can check it yourself. You drew the line from the South tip of Palos Verdes Peninsula, to the north tip of Catalina Island. That is clearly dishonest.
You pretty much are just dishonest all around.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Nov 14, 2010 - 01:06am PT
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so anyway.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Nov 14, 2010 - 01:08am PT
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Wow, 328 and counting and still just the two protagonists?
Don't know if this has been pointed out but if you look closely at any
contrail caused by a jet engine you're gonna see a spiral as the engine is
spiraling after all. A rocket engine basically has no moving parts so its
contrail shouldn't have any reason to spin other than coriolis effect. Jess sayin'....
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Nov 14, 2010 - 01:55am PT
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You know you are right.
Missiles don't ever spiral. My bad.
(Sarcasm)
Yea, that KCAL photographer on the Hleicopter didn't really know what he saw when he witnessed the spiralling effect of the missile launch . . .
Nope, he didn't know what he was talking about. What a bad, bad observer.
All images taken from this copy of the original video footage shot by KCAL:
Raw Video: Mystery Missile Appears over Southern California. Helicopter CAM "no audio"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAZLYn44FeQ&feature=related
'video shot by a KCBS/KCAL Cameraman Gil Leyvas News helicopter in Los Angeles that shows an object shooting across the sky and leaving a large contrail, or vapor trail, over the Pacific Ocean. Pentagon Can't Explain 'Missile' Off California Coast.
"Whatever it was, it was spinning up into the sky kind of like a spiral," and was easy to distinguish from condensation trails from jets, he said. "It was quite a sight to see. It was spectacular" said the cameraman.'
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