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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - May 4, 2010 - 02:27am PT
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YES.
Lots. I'm tired. I'm going to bed. Will post up stuff on Mars later . . .
How about that giant golfball GOD hit into the giant sand-trap of Mars though?
Aw geees, it is gonna take another FOIA request with the MRO - HiRISE imagery from NASA. Why can't we just see it all without begging NASA for it?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Klimmer, NASA's most likely released everything they have... but if you want to waste your time, go ahead and file a FOIA... http://www.hq.nasa.gov/pao/FOIA/
or you can ask them to shoot a picture of your favorite area:
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/MRO/news/mro20100331.html
you can also stare at your ceiling and get a lot of really great patterns there too, or maybe the clouds (ever suspect that the way you "see" might be suggesting patterns that aren't what you perceive?).
I can send you a bumper sticker for your car... I need to get another one for 510 OW as the current one is pretty weathered, from the bumper sticker guy on Telegraph Ave:
"DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU THINK"
my guess is that you're way on the other side of that advice.
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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Look at Weld-it, port and flashy. they can't even let monkeys on a worthless free social network have a thread to them selves, and it's FREEE for them to take their bullshit to their OWN THREAD. All they have to do is show a LITTLE self restraint, and we could ALL have our own threads. But NO. They are im-mature and have to throw their sh#t into OUR cage, because they can't amuse themselves without f*#king up somebody's else's wet dream.
How about taking your bullshit to your own website where you can have your wet dream in peace? Klimmer posts this stuff here because he knows he will get us riled up.
They are a perfect example of immature racial profiles
Dude.......what are you talking about?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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RJ
NASA's job, funded by a third of a billion Americans, is to answer the questions we ask. Who has a better right to ask the questions than the people who are funding the project?
I don't think so... NASA's "job" isn't to respond to every nutjob in this country or any other country (although they do respond a lot, amazingly).
What does NASA do? (http://www.nasa.gov/about/highlights/what_does_nasa_do.html);
NASA's mission is to pioneer the future in space exploration, scientific discovery and aeronautics research.
it doesn't say anything about pandering to the lunatic fringe, though they're happy to do it if they think it helps them politically...
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MeatBomb
Gym climber
Boise, I dee Hoe
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Are you meat sticks still at this? What a circle jerk of losers!
edit to clarify: not you Ed. Them other losers with their head in the clouds and asses in the air waiting for the alien probe from South Park.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Those scientists are actually doing science...
...and they spent a bit of time putting the missions together, designing the instruments, writing the codes to process the images, and to analyze them. They'd like to actually get to do some science after the 10+ years it takes to put a mission together before they are consumed with a bunch of wacky requests to look for "giant golf balls embedded in a martian sand trap."
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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But you never attempt to even suggest answers to any of what I'm talking about. The problem with these sorts of discussions is that the participants never seem to be able to concurrently grasp and hold onto all three of the critical factors involved - the requisite distance, energy, and time scales. That seems once again to be the case here. In the case of this proposition you can't even seem to figure out how one might get it into orbit for a journey.
So let's play 'what if' with a like-sized cylinder of Titanium or something with similar structural qualities and mass:
Length: 5,000 Meters
Outer Diameter: 700 Meters
Inner Diameter: 690 Meters
What's that work out to in the way of volume of material and mass to source, refine, manufacture, and get to orbit:
Enclosed volume: 54,585,172.356 m3
Mass:
245,633,275,603 kg
541,528,676,073 lbs
270,764,338 tons
Given Earth's annual production of titanium-relatied ores / dioxides is about 5 million tons and that takes a shitload of energy to mine and process, let alone fabricate and send to orbit, it would seem to be quite a proposition even for an energy rich civilization. Even magically producing enough titanium from a moon would be a fantastical stretch of the imagination.
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MeatBomb
Gym climber
Boise, I dee Hoe
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Rokjox, honest question: are you on any drugs now, prescribed or otherwise, and does your family know what you do here on the forum for hours a day?
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MisterE
Social climber
Across Town From Easy Street
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People just don't understand me - why, oh why?
Maybe if I try harder, they will see what is so glaringly obvious.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Well, I don't care how advanced or how long they live - amassing that much material from any source to produce an interstellar capable craft for any purpose would require more than hollowing out passing junk. And talking energy:
Accelerating one ton to one-tenth of the speed of light requires at least 450 PJ or 4.5 × 1017 J or 125 billion kWh, not accounting for losses
That would make powering our little visitor rack up about:
33,845,542,250,000,000,000 kWh
And 1/10th SOL would really only really be for commuting around the immediate galactic neigborhood.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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And none of that takes into account the intelligence, energy, or systems necessary to brake and do a soft landing on the moon. Again all implausible.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Yes I have and again I don't find any of it remotely plausible as an explanation for Klimmer's interstellar Titanic.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Ah Stich another F word....fantasy. Along with "faith" they lead to actions that Pate rightly describes as stupidity.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - May 4, 2010 - 09:51am PT
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Oh-kay, let's get back on track . . .
Yea, I may be seeing patterns that aren't really there, but then so are a million other people . . .
Massive Moon Object that amazingly looks like a massive ship and casts a shadow . . .
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/resources/apollo/frame/?AS15-P-9625
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/resources/apollo/frame/?AS15-P-9630
And there are many official images of said object in the NASA archives, yet all are amazingly at low res. Why? And why the heck do they keep taking images of said object and fly right over it and take even more? Yep, it is just an uninteresting ridge next to an impact crater. C'mon. Something is there that is massive.
I just want the same region at hi-res using the new LRO images. Is that so much to ask? I'm not asking NASA to interpret them. Just release the dang images.
Regarding the image of the massive "3D golf ball" on Mars . . . Someone said how do we know it wasn't taken in someone's backyard?
http://ida.wr.usgs.gov/html/m15012/m1501228.html
Once again, I'm not asking for NASA to interpret, I just want the MRO HiRISE images released publically of said region on Mars and let us have a detailed look-see. Again, is that so much to ask?
I want to be able to dial in and look at the detail, just as we now can do so for the Apollo Mission sites and see the Astronaut foot paths in the Lunar regolith. But I want to be able to do so for these 2 very interesting regions. One on the Moon, and one on Mars.
And make these images public so everyone can have a detailed look-see, not just a few people. Why not do so with the entire archive of the newest images? Make it a searchable database by lat./long. We paid for it. These images belong to the people.
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WBraun
climber
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Ah yes, stupidity the big bad climber says ...
Another F word, ... faith.
Just see the climber have faith that he'll make it to the top of the big mountain.
Then when he reaches the top after all that suffering only to come back down and start all over again because he never found the real answer.
Stupidity ...... it swings in every direction.
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Jongy
Gym climber
Ciudad Juárez, Ch Mexico
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I am over here weld_it. what's your question? I have some myself. Where did that donini person run off to? it seems like he was going to help me.
I'm not mexican though.
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Mike Bolte
Trad climber
Planet Earth
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"I would think in terms of conversion of mass into energy at 90% plus efficiency."
hmm, hydrogen fusion to helium (this powers the Sun) is the most efficient conversion of mass into energy we know about. What do you think that efficiency is? (answer 0.7%)
"A year of 1-G acceleration gets you close to the speed of light,"
OK, but don't forget F=ma. And when you are calculating the force to generate your 1-G acceleration don't forget special relativity! mass(relativistic)=mass/sqrt(1-v^2/c^2)
This last equation as v approaches c is the big problem.
EDIT: However, I bow to DMT's post. I'd love to be able to see the equivalent of Wikipedia a thousand years from now. Who knows what we are going to know about the Universe then.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Its easy to use covered wagon technology to dismiss commercial transcontinental flight.
Funny, I was having a randomly opposite thought last month as I looked out the window on a transcontinental flight. A relatively new 737, it was. If my younger self could time travel from a seat on one of the first jet airliners, a 707, half a century back -- I think I'd be surprised and disappointed by how *little* has changed.
The speed of sound is still there, the stratosphere is still thin, and it still ain't practical to fly an airliner any faster or higher than it was in 1960. Not only that but they *look* almost the same, apart from having 2 engines instead of 4.
Similar thoughts looking around at a highway or a home -- so much has not changed, where did the future go? Biggest change might be the digital stuff (now Avatar, that looks different!), but it's not so obvious at first. Lots of everyday mechanical things, from our cars to telephones and tvs, show incremental improvement but fall miles short of the Jetsons. And it's clear now that we're never gonna get there, never ride that spaceliner to Mars. Much less Alpha C.
Alas.
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Mike Bolte
Trad climber
Planet Earth
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I don't know Chiloe, I think you need to think about 100 and 1000 and 10000 year increments.
On the other hand, it is hard for us humans on our little speck out in the boondocks of the Galaxy to get a real sense of the huge scale of the solar system, much less the solar neighborhood or the Galaxy. Human space flight to Mars is a huge challenge. It is really beyond anything we can imagine doing right now to travel to the nearest stars. But, wait 1000 years and the story will be different for sure.
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Flashy P
climber
Sparks, NV
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Hi Jongy, I stayed up almost all night last night making Elmer's glue Kitty Litter holds. The first batch came out not so good, so I used a different type of kitty litter, Fresh Step instead of the bulk stuff from the PetCo. It has a great consistency and the finished holds released from the jello molds perfectly. Right now I am heating them with a butane torch to see if I can get them nice and sticky.
I sent an email to donini asking if he preferred yellow glue or Elmer's but he hasn't gotten back yet.
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