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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Feb 24, 2010 - 07:16pm PT
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What Donini said.
Who's the wimp: the guy who goes hiking in the Yosemite backcountry without a gun or the one that carries a weapon? If you're so worried about "perps" or snipers get yourself a Kevlar vest.
It's fascinating and disgustingly metaphorical that so many equate manhood with the long barrel of their firearm... ha!
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franky
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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Feb 24, 2010 - 07:20pm PT
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you think i'm wrong, the numbers say i'm right.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Feb 24, 2010 - 07:26pm PT
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I hear the mighty roar of chicken hawks. Most , not all, ST gun owners would sh#t their pants in a real confrontation.
Well if the gun owners are such wimps, then it's especially important that they do in fact own guns when they have to deal with you tough guys and/or bears. The "Great Equalizer" and all that.
I'll go back to hiding in my closet now.
Edit--No need to keep bumping this, but I disagree with LEB below. I DO NOT want a level playing field with a perp or a bear. The perp may be giant hopped up on PCP. Or it may just be some teenager who is a lot tougher and/or more violent than my middle-aged, sedentary self.
I want an overwhelming advantage in firepower if think I'm going to have a confrontation, sh#t in pants or not.
If one is sitting in the stands of the ice-skating arena watching figure skating at the Olympics and he or she feels he is in eminent danger, yes that is paranoid. The likelihood of actual danger there is minimal
Tell that to Nancy Kerrigan!
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Feb 24, 2010 - 07:51pm PT
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It's fascinating and disgustingly metaphorical that so many equate manhood with the long barrel of their firearm... ha!
calling locker! there is a need for a cartoon here, i just know it....
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adam d
climber
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Feb 24, 2010 - 07:58pm PT
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One final time, however, the individual doing the accosting has to present a veritable and credible threat and even then it is always preferable to disable versus intentionally shooting to kill.
No. Self defense is shooting to stop a threat. When the threat stops, the shooter stops.
It is neither intentionally disabling nor killing.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Feb 24, 2010 - 07:58pm PT
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LEB, I'll try again. I think we agree with each other, and either I made a mistake in my phrasing or you made a mistake in reading. Anyway:
If I am in a confrontation with either a bear or a perp, I do not want a level playing field. I want a massive advantage in weaponry.
A "fair fight" is great for a boxing match, but if the safety of me or a loved one is at stake, I want to do everything possible to put the odds in my favor. That means I need a high-power, military style rifle, a 12-guage high-capacity shotgun alternately loaded with slugs and buckshot (heavy on the slugs), or at the least, a massive "Dirty-Harry" style handgun. No saturday night specials.
(OK, I'll come clean. I don't now nor have I ever owned a gun. Sometimes I think about getting a .22 to do a little plinking, or maybe a .357 or something for personal protection in light of the fact that my house has been burglarzied several times.)
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Feb 24, 2010 - 08:43pm PT
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Until you've been robbed, mugged, or burglarized, being a gun hater is pretty easy. After you've Been Violated, life looks a lot different. I lost my favorite binoculars--my Canon 15x50 IS binos--in a car break in about 2 years ago. In addition to the $1,200.00 loss, there was a broken window in my car and glass all over the inside. This happened in a well-lit hotel parking lot in Oregon. Imagine some poor shmuck coming up on a guy wielding a tire iron in the course of the theft. I'd rather have a 9 mm instad of my fists or track shoes. JMHO.
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franky
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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Feb 24, 2010 - 08:58pm PT
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either a gun, or you could just let him steal your possessions and go away unharmed...
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Feb 24, 2010 - 09:01pm PT
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For me--not an option. I worked hard to *earn* my stuff. Chamberlain appeased Hitler and still got WW II.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Feb 24, 2010 - 09:01pm PT
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Ah!
Franky and the handwringers
sing an other sad sad song.
Poor thief!
You should all be so ashamed of yourselves,
for wishing that misfortune befalls him.
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Feb 24, 2010 - 09:13pm PT
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Franky, you have to be the most pussyfied, pacifistic wimp I've ever come across.
Do you let people just walk all over you?
Do you have no dignity or self respect?
I suspect you still get your lunch money taken away on a regular basis.
Even if you're scared of guns at least stand up for yourself.
and whoever suggested "if you're afraid of perps or snipers" then get a kevlar vest..Hahahaha! What a dumb ass. What, you just keep taking rounds until they run out of ammo?
Can any of you pacifists name ONE situation where you can make the argument that it would be better to NOT have a gun?
And don't give me this crap about the bad guy taking the gun away BS.
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Feb 24, 2010 - 09:25pm PT
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The kevlar vest was a joke numbskull. When is it good not to have a gun? When your drunk and pissed at wifey for throwing away your stash. When some little kid finds your gun and makes a terrible mistake. When you blow somebody away for taking your stuff only to discover you've made a mistake. When your wife gets pissed at you for smoking too much dope and just can't take it anymore. When you get real depressed and decide you can't take it any more.
People who think guns in a national park like Yosemite are a mistake aren't pacifists they're just rational.
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Feb 24, 2010 - 09:40pm PT
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"When your drunk and pissed at wifey for throwing away your stash. When some little kid finds your gun and makes a terrible mistake. When you blow somebody away for taking your stuff only to discover you've made a mistake. When your wife gets pissed at you for smoking too much dope and just can't take it anymore. When you get real depressed and decide you can't take it any more."
I see a theme here...are you depressed or irrational Paul?
What kind of twisted logic would make you think that it's the gun that's the problem with that situation.
Once again, a total BS argument.
Why not just say, it's not good to have a gun if your a clinically depressed substance abuser?
I guess you've decided no one should own a gun?
Edit: Excellent point Locker.
If you live in Colorado, you have NO idea how many people around you are packing at any given moment...legally!
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Feb 24, 2010 - 10:09pm PT
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When you live in Wyoming, just assume that everyone is packing.
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Feb 24, 2010 - 10:32pm PT
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"When you live in Wyoming, just assume that everyone is packing."
Exactly. Here in Reno, same thing. Even if you don't have a permit to carry concealed, you can legally carry in your car, or at your business etc.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Feb 24, 2010 - 10:56pm PT
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leb seems to be enslaved by a mind full of fear and hostility.
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Feb 24, 2010 - 11:00pm PT
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I couldn't see pulling a gun on someone for steeling my stuff, let alone shooting them. In most bear encounters I'd reach for the camera before the gun.
But if somebody was threatening my family, I would give no quarter.
When we finally make it back to Yosemite, I won't be packing. Airlines and TSA are a big enough PITA w/o transporting firearms, and I'd have to drive through California with a gun to get to Yosemite, not gonna happen.
That said, folks should have the right to choose weather or not they wish to carry a gun to protect themselves, or allow someone else to carry a gun to protect them.
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Feb 24, 2010 - 11:05pm PT
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Excellent post tolman.
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
Last clip of Lichen Lunch
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Feb 24, 2010 - 11:07pm PT
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Yes Sir. I'm Down.
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Madbolter
Big Wall climber
I used to be hard
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Feb 24, 2010 - 11:11pm PT
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franky
Feb 24, 2010 - 02:57pm PT
criminal has a gun, you are better off just doing what he says than not, ask the insurance companies, they are the ones who have the real statistics. You obviously don't really have a vagina. But interesting to see someone actually advocate the 'lie back and enjoy it' rape defense strategy.
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