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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Apr 15, 2012 - 07:49pm PT
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nice little box you've devised there, shanghai. count me outside that one too.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2012 - 09:28pm PT
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klimmer, let's begin with your favorite word here, demon, from the greek, daimon. daimon has had many connotations, from the "evil" one you use here, to a usage pretty much like our contemporary word "genius", for someone smart and creative. the original meaning, according to the liddell-scott lexicon i use, was simply "god" or "goddess". then it was applied to the departed souls of humans, after they die. then it came to mean your devils, a rather late meaning for the word. this "evil" meaning seems to correspond, in time, to the intensification of the good-versus-evil mythology which i have referred to previously. you'll find that carefully outlined in a book you're not going to want to read, elaine pagels's the origin of satan. pagels says that satan started taking on the character of ultimate evil when he could be blamed for the fact that other people wouldn't accept religious orthodoxy. i'll bet that book will never show up in your pastor's library.
Tony,
You have to rightly divide the word of GOD to know the truth of the matter. You actually have to go to the source itself and see how they are defined in context.
You have the Heavenly Host. Many of them are Angels of GOD (there are other wonderfully bizarre creatures in Heaven that the Good Book describes.) You have the Good Angels who have not left GOD and continue to serve him, and then you have the bad ones like Lucifer who turned their back on GOD and fell. The fallen Angels. 33% of them went with Lucifer and fell. Some of the fallen Angels mated with woman of Earth. Their off-spring were the worst of fallen Angels and sinful fallen mankind and the woman they mated with. Their off-spring were called Nephilim. They had extraordinary strength, power, intelligence, and size. They were an abomination that were not meant to exist or be. When Nephilim die they they turn into Demons. Fallen Angles, Nephilim, and Demons have no hope of salvation. They are at war with GOD and work against mankind.
The evidence from many sources say there is a direct connection between Fallen Angels, Nephilim, Demons, and the ETs masquerading and flying around, doing unspeakable horrific acts, and abducting and harassing mankind. I've brought that to your attention. You dismiss it with the wave of your hand. Time will tell.
you're the one walking on shaky ground here, klim. i've started to wonder whether your motivations on supertopo have a lot to do with your going through a divorce. i'd like to hear from your wayward wife whether her life turned into hell and whether you, the holy one, had the teensiest thing to do with it.
I've been at ST since 2003. From the Your First post to Supertopo thread . . . long before an problems in marriage. I'm here to talk about all issues, including climbing.
Feb 29, 2012 - 08:55pm PT
Man, I was contraversial from the get go . . . lol.
Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 22, 2003 - 12:40am PT
While I was Busy flying, Paradise was Ransacked and Ruined . . .
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=17754&msg=17754#msg17754
while you're busy defending jesus in the one true way, consider yanking your kids out of catholic school. many "christians" don't even consider catholics "christians" (this was an interesting surprise to me), and many think that the pope is satan's secret representative on earth.
Catholics are Christians. I know many who are very faithful to GOD and Christ. There are differences in doctrine to be sure between Catholics and Protestants, but we have more in common than differences. The Pope is not Christ on Earth, nor do we have to go through the Pope to talk with Jesus and GOD. All Christians have direct access through faith and prayer.
Calling true Christianity an occult???
the key word there is "true", my friend. one man's "true christianity" is the next one's heresy and work of the devil. please don't blame me for sticking my fingers in my ears and running away from the lot of them.
I've explained the difference. And the Newsweek article does a pretty good job too. Jesus said you would know them by their works. Do they act and do what Jesus does or not? If they are contrary to GOD, and Jesus Christ's teaching then they are not Christian. Perhaps they are fallen from grace and are in error?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 15, 2012 - 09:56pm PT
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What's "Occult" mean? Seems like anything that deals with the supernatural world in any way except via pure blind faith involves something "occult"
Peace
Karl
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2012 - 11:33pm PT
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The occult, witchcraft, sorcery, astrology etc. are strictly forbidden by GOD throughout The Good Book, The Bible.
There is real power in these practices, but it's not of GOD but from Lucifer. One who practices these arts and occult practices are tapping into "the dark side." You are opening yourself to very real dark sinister powers and they ultimately want to and will destroy you.
There is Love, Peace, and Safety with GOD.
By the way, Google the occult, witchcraft, sorcery, astrology, UFOs, ETs and you will see an unmistakable connection. Many who were in the occult, Satanic worship, Luciferians, also have UFO and ET experiences.
Is there any wonder why? There shouldn't be. The source is the same. Lucifer.
THE OCCULT—What does the Bible say about it?
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-occult.html
http://www.dougbrittonbooks.com/onlinebiblestudies-newagespiritualwarfare/astrologyoccultmediumsdivinationsorcery.php
William J. Schnoebelen:
He was a catholic priest, a Mason, an occult practicer, Lucifer Worshiper, Satanist, Witch etc. You name it, he was into all of it. Then he came back to GOD and asked forgiveness and left all of that incredible evil behind. Now he lives for GOD and warns people of the evil of "the other side." He also talks about the connection of UFOs/ETs with the occult and Satanism.
William J. Schnoebelen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Schnoebelen
http://www.withoneaccord.org/
http://www.withoneaccord.org/UFOs_c_8.html
The Sons of God and the Antichrist - Bill Schnoebelen - The Prophecy Club.avi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJJ0ZaFg3D4&feature=related
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Apr 15, 2012 - 11:48pm PT
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slow down, klimmer--you're dumping again.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Apr 16, 2012 - 12:07am PT
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Sorry, but I just can't accept that a grown man actually believes in angels and devils.
I feel as I am reading the words of a child.
You can take this any way you care to, Klimmer.
I really don't care. You naivete insults me.
This thread, which you started, is supposed to be about a possible alien ark on the moon.
But you just can't stop yourself from constantly, constantly, posting your 13th century,
extremely literal bible god stuff, as if you yourself are so doubtful of what you believe
that you have to look for reassurance from other people.
You just can't stop talking you, your god, your religion.
You are nauseatingly childish when you go on about little angels and devils.
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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Apr 16, 2012 - 12:11am PT
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Klimmer: you coming to the GordonFest? How about you Bird?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 16, 2012 - 12:14am PT
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Hard to imagine exactly what it is the Klimmerati wouldn't believe.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Apr 16, 2012 - 10:43am PT
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Sorry, but I just can't accept that a grown man actually believes in angels and devils.
god, norton--lots of grown men--and women, for that matter--are out there pastorizing churches full of grown men and women every sunday. some believe in those critters more than others, but i can't believe--or should i be using your word, "accept"?--that a rational fellow like you closes his mind to that.
dig a little deeper into this subject. none of glenn's attackers on here have covered the material to the point where they even begin to offer insight. most are still in the "oh, that was light reflecting on a cloud" camp. his conclusions are based on his personal belief system, but he has a couple things going for him his attackers seem to lack: curiosity and imagination. i think healyje's words are telling: "hard to imagine". but for some reason you guys just can't stick your noses in the air and walk away.
let's back this thread up to the very beginning, glenn. i think you're trying to have your cake and eat it too.
you like to talk about "the deceiver" a lot, but that ark-on-the-moon itself probably constitutes a deception. you're giving us the spielberg version. that thing is a classic nuts-and-bolts flying saucer. the debate has gotten more sophisticated than that. vallee is on the right track. spielberg himself seems to have admitted as much.
karl's point is well taken. "the occult" can be approached rationally and with decency. you don't have to become a part of it the way aleister crowley did in order to examine it. i don't think you have to be waving crosses at vampires either, like in the old movies. yes, dangerous territory, but ignoring it is worse. if there's any intention to the deception, it would appear that it is to divide and confuse us and turn us against each other. shanghai's post here is just one of the many dark flowers of that current, which includes centuries of religious persecutions, religion-justified imperialism, and nonreligious political fascism. you too are being divisive, glenn. your brand of divisiveness has been the thrust of jewish and christian thinking from the outset, a whisper in the ear that you are chosen over all the rest of the human race, an offer to be on the inside track and leave the others behind. open your eyes to that.
i started taking this discussion seriously thanks to some work by the late c. scott littleton, an anthropology prof at occidental college, a decent, rational, intelligent man. he actually taught an accredited course on the occult. no, i never took it, but i think he must have given his students a framework with which to deal with the disturbing information which is an increasing part of our world.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 16, 2012 - 12:04pm PT
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Christ expected his disciples and followers to embody spiritual gifts like speaking in tongues, giving spiritual healings and more. The Magi found him via the message of a star (undoubtedly more like Astrology than figuring out which star was hanging over a barn somewhere) Prophecy (good) and soothsaying (bad) are shades of the same thing.
And even to have an intuitive connection with God/Jesus could be considered "occult."
and if you don't have that, you're just believing words written by folks 2000 years ago who potentially had an axe to grind.
Jesus himself offered animals for slaughter to sacrfice to God, which might raise occult eyebrows today.
"Occult" is an undefined kinda thing. Many would say concern about aliens is Occult
Peace
Karl
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Apr 16, 2012 - 12:16pm PT
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Tony Bird said:
god, norton--lots of grown men--and women, for that matter--are out there pastorizing churches full of grown men and women every sunday. some believe in those critters more than others, but i can't believe--or should i be using your word, "accept"?--that a rational fellow like you closes his mind to that.
little critters indeed
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hairyapeman
Trad climber
Fres-yes
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Apr 16, 2012 - 12:53pm PT
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Klim: I am a christian too. But sometimes I feel that these ramblings are only making you and the others dig deeper into your own beleifs. And thus not getting anywhere.
"The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Corinthians 2:14
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hairyapeman
Trad climber
Fres-yes
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Apr 16, 2012 - 12:55pm PT
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True Dr. F.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 16, 2012 - 01:00pm PT
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How exactly is it that you can believe in your god without believing in every god any man has believed in for the past 50,000 years?
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2012 - 02:07pm PT
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Gee keeping up with this thread is hard work . . .
LostinShanghi,
I never responded to you. Your reasoning is really, really scary. If anyone should be watched by the government it should be people who spew non-sense and dangerous hateful vitriol like you do. Welcome to your own NWO by your creation.
You are trying to lump all Christians whether they be True Christians with those who misappropriate his name. Don't ever confuse the two.
Jesus Christ was never about militia or ever doing anything by violence. His message was only about peace, love, compassion, and doing good to those who hate and persecute you. Love your enemy. All of which is far more powerful than hate and violence.
Your attempting to some how try to connect me with false witnesses of Jesus Christ and with those who would form militias and take and misappropriate the name of Jesus. You can't. I'm a True Christian. My Lord doesn't allow hate and violence. "Those who live by the sword will die by the sword." We are supposed to do good to those who hate and persecute us. We are commanded to love our enemies.
Your argument and reasoning are completely unfounded and empty, and they go nowhere.
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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Apr 16, 2012 - 02:15pm PT
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Yep, I'm convinced. She's holding her arms just like satan is. LOL!
Klimmer, is it true Satan has a goat like head?
Did the angels mate with goat women too?
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2012 - 02:23pm PT
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Apr 15, 2012 - 09:11pm PT
Klimmer: you coming to the GordonFest? How about you Bird?
Russ,
Thanks for the invite but it's my and John Muir's B-day. I have fun plans with my kids.
Besides I really don't think it would be much fun for me knowing that it could just turn into ridicule and abuse toward me and my faith. Maybe yes, maybe no? I don't know. I do far better with just a few people face to face where we can talk peacefully without "the feeding the Christian to the lions" group think and mentality that can happen. I don't want to become a speckacle for peoples warped sense of entertainment. Not saying it would happen, but it could happen.
"Be as wise as a serpent and tender as a dove," as the Good Book says.
Hope the party is a good one, safe, and fun one for all though. I've met Todd G. at Mt. Rubidoux, and He seems to be a good husband, father, and teacher, and as well a good climber.
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new world order-
climber
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Apr 16, 2012 - 02:27pm PT
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^^^ Fair enough, Malemute.
Care to answer me this...Is Satanic worship and ritual, for real?
Aren't Freemason's Christians
Dr. F.
The lower degrees/levels of Freemasonry are not in tune with what goes on in the 33rd degree. They are merely porch masons who believe what they are doing is good (giving to charities and the like).
It is the higher ups who pull the strings, as in Bush senior, Clintons, Rockefellars, Rothchilds, British Royal Family, etc.
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