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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jan 10, 2011 - 04:44pm PT
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Well, I'd cut union member salaries 10% and lay off 20k employees, I'd stop paying tutions for non-citizens, I'd terminate state defined benefit plans and put in 401k's. How about those for starters???
I'd love to do that too, Jeff, but I'm not sure that California can constitutionally abrogate its labor contracts. If nothing else, it shows the dangers of giving carte blanche to public employee unions.
John
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jan 10, 2011 - 04:53pm PT
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Thanks fattrad. I like the 401k idea. Cutting 20k state employees--don't you think that'd be DOA?
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dirtbag
climber
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Jan 10, 2011 - 05:03pm PT
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Bookworm, you have some kind of weird mission to defend the indefensible, like when you defended the racist Obama monkey cartoons a few years ago.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jan 10, 2011 - 05:20pm PT
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Palin's crosshair bit.
Indefensibly stupid.
Violent rhetoric used by someone who almost held the second highest post in America.
But whatever. She's a repub so her tw#t must be squeaky clean and tight.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jan 10, 2011 - 05:33pm PT
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When you want to make someone like palin responsible then start taking some of it for your own side.
No Skip. It is not equal. The vitriol from the right far exceed anything the left is doing, at least in its significance.
The left does not have someone of comparable stature doing what
Palin did. No one.
Look at the top rated talk radio shows (number is millions of listeners):
American Top 40 20+ worldwide
The Rush Limbaugh Show 15+
The Sean Hannity Show 14+
Morning Edition 13+
All Things Considered 13+
Glenn Beck Program 10+
The Mark Levin Show 8.5+
The Savage Nation 8.5+
The Dave Ramsey Show 8+
The Dr. Laura Program 8+
Delilah 8+
The Neal Boortz Show 6+
The Laura Ingraham Show 6+
Fresh Air 5+
Car Talk 4+
Coast to Coast AM 3+ (Most listened to late-night radio show)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most-listened-to_radio_programs
Savage straight up is a fascist hater using hateful and violent rhetoric constantly. Period. Limbaugh is not far behind. These guys are tops in their business and reach millions.
Sorry, but you're just wrong here. Limbaugh, Savage are mainstream and are very influential.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jan 10, 2011 - 05:36pm PT
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Did you read what I wrote?
Who of any sort of influence said the same sort of stuff that Savage, Limbaugh and others have said?
Those guys are major movers and shakers in conservative circles. MAJOR. Major media players.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Swimming in LEB tears.
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Jan 10, 2011 - 05:50pm PT
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Skipt said As for Limbaugh. Only an utter nutjob would think he insights violence.
Poor spelling, on the other hand, he apparently incites quite a bit of. Limbaugh and his ilk incite hate and are successful by marginalizing their opponents and turning them into actual enemies instead of people who simply differ politically. They cite the "growing threat to America" and talk about how "America and the American way of life is under attack" from people who want to "destroy" it. They even talk about revolution (as have people on this very forum) in a manner that leaves it WIDE OPEN whether or not that means armed or political revolution. I do not believe that Limbaugh wishes for people to actually be violent, but as I said earlier when you are constantly using that kind of language it becomes careless. There are far too many people out there who will take that kind of thing too far.
Meanwhile, in the House, Speaker Boehner has a lot to live up to:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/11/us/politics/11delay.html?hp
DeLay Sentenced to 3 Years in Money Laundering Case
AUSTIN, Texas —Tom DeLay, the former House majority leader, was sentenced to three years in prison on Monday after convictions for money laundering and conspiracy stemming from his role in a scheme to channel corporate contributions to Texas state races in 2002.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jan 10, 2011 - 05:57pm PT
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I really don't care what you think about Savage. The guy has always been a wanna be idiot. I don't listen to him nor would I ever. It took about 20 minutes to figure this guy as a second rate thinker.
Good to hear.
But millions of Americans, including people who have posted here, do listen to him, are influenced by his ideas, and like him.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jan 10, 2011 - 06:00pm PT
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So the word Tw#t gets censored,
interesting
Isn't tw#t just the past form of tweet,
as in "I did a lot of tw#tting this weekend, and the last tw#t was nice a juicy one"
Good one. :-)
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Swimming in LEB tears.
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Jan 10, 2011 - 06:07pm PT
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Guys if people didn't specifically tell him to go kill her then there is nothing wrong with what they are doing. Everyone is overreacting. Back to hating as usual. Also remember to repost Skipt's comments the next time some black dude says something mildly inflammatory.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jan 10, 2011 - 06:15pm PT
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Right Wing Media Talking Heads Drive Followers to Violence
In a 2009 report, the Southern Poverty Law Center found that the anti-government militia movement -- which had risen to prominence during the Clinton administration and faded away during the Bush years -- has returned. According to the SPLC, the anti-government resurgence has been buttressed by paranoid rhetoric from public officials like Republican Congresswoman Michele Bachmann and media figures like Fox News' Glenn Beck.
Just last month, Gregory Giusti pleaded guilty to repeatedly threatening House Speaker Nancy Pelosi -- including threatening to destroy her California home -- because he was "upset with her passing the health care law." His mother told a local news station that he "frequently gets in with a group of people that have really radical ideas," adding, "I'd say Fox News or all of those that are really radical, and he -- that's where he comes from."
After the 2008 election, Fox News personalities filled the airwaves with increasingly violent rhetoric and apocalyptic language. On his Fox News show, Beck talked about "put[ting] poison" in Pelosi's wine.
Observers of this most recent act were mystified by one of Byron Williams' reported targets: the Tides Foundation, a low-profile charitable organization known for funding environmentalists, community groups, and other organizations.
Beck, it turned out, had attacked Tides 29 times on his Fox News show in the year-and-a-half leading up to the shooting.
Now, in exclusive interviews and written correspondence with journalist John Hamilton, Williams speaks for himself. He asks Hamilton to be his "media advocate" and repeatedly instructs him to watch specific broadcasts of Beck's show for information on the conspiracy theory that drove him over the edge: an intricate plot involving Barack Obama, philanthropist George Soros, a Brazilian oil company, and the BP disaster.
Williams also points to other media figures -- right-wing propagandist David Horowitz, and Internet conspiracist and repeated Fox News guest Alex Jones -- as key sources of information to inspire his "revolution."
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jan 10, 2011 - 06:23pm PT
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Well, you can add another name to the list of violent nutcases inspired to act by Glenn Beck -- this time, a northern Idaho militiaman arrested last summer for building grenades at his home in the Panhandle. From Meghann Cuniff at the Spokesman-Review:
A self-described militia leader pleaded guilty this week to federal gun charges connected to a grenade manufacturing operation at his trailer in Spirit Lake, Idaho.
Kenneth B. Kimbley Jr., 58, discussed bombing local bridges with an undercover federal agent and made threatening statements toward President Barack Obama, leading investigators last July to seize 20,000 ammunition rounds and several firearms from Kimbley’s property, where he and other suspected militia members gathered to construct grenades, according to court documents.
Kimbley, who remains in federal custody, pleaded guilty to Monday to unlawful possession of a firearm and attempt to make a firearm in violation of the National Firearms Act. He faces up to 10 years in prison when he’s sentenced Feb. 22.
... An undercover agent said Kimbley described himself as the leader of the “Brotherhood of America Patriots” militia and said “he would kill members of his group that did not follow orders,” according to court documents.
Kimbely reportedly described extensive booby traps he’d built and said his militia’s purpose “was to resist in the event the government started rounding up the patriots” and to resist foreign invasions or societal breakdowns.
His public defender, Kim Deater, did not return a phone call seeking comment. In court documents, she described Kimbley as a nonthreatening man who has passionate political views.
Though prosecutors have emphasized his militia ties and his dislike for Obama, Kimbley “made absolutely no threats to harm anyone at anytime,” Deater wrote in court documents.
“In fact, everything said by Mr. Kimbley is no different than what his idol, TV commentator Glenn Beck, typically states on the air and is protected free speech.”
This is now the third such case, following Byron Williams, the would-be Tides Foundation terrorist, and Richard Poplawski, the Pittsburgh cop-killer who believed, thanks to Glenn Beck, that authorities were going to take his guns away.
As Leah Nelson at SPLC's Hatewatch notes:
The connection between Kimbley’s beliefs and Beck’s provocative on-air statements seems clear, especially his fear that the government plans to round up and intern liberty-loving Americans, a fear that was also expressed by Poplawski and Byron.
Moreover, this is now the fourth violent incident in which Fox News' mainstreaming of extremism played a significant role
http://crooksandliars.com/taxonomy/term/65,3952,509
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jan 10, 2011 - 06:39pm PT
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AUSTIN, Texas — A judge ordered former U.S. House Majority Leader Tom DeLay to serve three years in prison Monday for his role in a scheme to illegally funnel corporate money to Texas candidates in 2002.
The sentence comes after a jury in November convicted DeLay on charges of money laundering and conspiracy to commit money laundering.
The Republican who represented the Houston area was once one of the most powerful people in U.S. politics, ascending to the No. 2 job in the House of Representatives. During a several-minute statement to the judge prior to sentencing, DeLay repeated his longstanding claims that the prosecution was politically motivated and that he never intended to break the law.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jan 10, 2011 - 06:43pm PT
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Fatty should change his signature to
The Most Factually Ignorant One
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dirtbag
climber
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Jan 10, 2011 - 06:44pm PT
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I, for one, will never give up my right to free speech. Nor, will I ask anyone else to, just because some nut jobs might find something in it to do that they would do anyway.
People in leadership positions have a responsility to watch what they say. Words matter.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jan 10, 2011 - 06:53pm PT
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Jeeez...he even looks like a creep.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jan 10, 2011 - 06:58pm PT
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I too think words matter.
So I guess I have to ask you again: Where do you know that this killer listened to, or was influenced by, anyone in talk radio or positions of "power?"
I said about 100 posts back that I have no idea who he listened to, and that his politics, to the extent he has any, seem to be an odd mixture of conspiracy type beliefs more in line with the nutters we often see posting here.
HOWEVER, that does KNOTT make the mainstream hate talk any more excusable because it is a very dangerous "game."
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dirtbag
climber
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Jan 10, 2011 - 07:54pm PT
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I can quote you chapter and verse from all sides of the political spectrum
describing why people should never be made to shut up just because it is
politically expedient for one side or the other.
Then do it. Come back when you have someone of Palin/Beck/Savage/Limbaugh's stature using violent metaphors. I bet you find a bunch of nobodies.
It isn't the same rhetoric used on both sides. It's wishful thinking to pretend it is. The right wing has been using hate rhetoric for years to a degree that the left hasn't.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jan 10, 2011 - 08:08pm PT
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Actually Skip, you asked me once, and I answered an hour ago:
I said about 100 posts back that I have no idea who he listened to, and that his politics, to the extent he has any, seem to be an odd mixture of conspiracy type beliefs more in line with the nutters we often see posting here.
HOWEVER, that does KNOTT make the mainstream hate talk any more excusable because it is a very dangerous "game."
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