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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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Nov 22, 2009 - 10:55am PT
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 22, 2009 - 11:05am PT
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The man who speculates forgets that he himself is subject to the four defects of nature:
He is sure to commit mistakes.
His senses are imperfect.
He is sure to fall into illusion.
And he is cheating.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Nov 22, 2009 - 11:40am PT
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I'm sorry to hear that the Catholic Bishop is treating RFK Jr. this way.
Who really advocates abortion? C'mon who really does? Isn't it really and shouldn't it be only used as a last means method for rape, and health reason's, or extreme situations that only the mother can understand?
If a woman is violently raped by a stranger and becomes pregnant, do you really think it is a good idea to go through with the pregnancy? Is that the child she chose with the man she loves?
Find out about how GOD felt about offspring between Angels and Man, Nepahlim, through the book of Enoch and the book of Genesis, he wipes them out with extreme prejudice. They were an abomination that wasn't supposed to ever happen. Nephalim were the worst of Angels and the worst of Mankind together. It got to the point where they were eating the flesh of mankind, they were so bad. Read the book of Enoch.
Would anyone argue that Nephalim were not living and life? They have no chance for salvation (as far as I know) and will meet a severe punishment on the Judgement Day. I don't understand it all just relating what the book of Enoch says and shows clearly.
I enjoyed the link Ed gave regarding Newton and his last days prediction, very interesting:
http://www.isaac-newton.org/newton_2060.htm
A really great resource regarding this also (I show this film to my students when we go through a quick history of Physics; we get into their personalities a bit, always fun to do):
Newton's Dark Secrets:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/newton/
The video: NOVA Newton's Dark Secrets
http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/category/technology/watch/v16152020fKgnRxEz#
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Nov 22, 2009 - 12:08pm PT
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Klimmer, do you tell your students that Schrodinger's brilliant insight into the wave mechanics likely happened in Arosa where he spent the 1925 Christmas holiday with a girlfriend (he was married at the time and had three other lovers) of which is written "whoever may have been his inspiration, the increase in Erwin's powers were dramatic, and he began a twelve month period of sustained creative activity that is without a parallel in the history of science." (Walter Moore, Schrodinger, Life and Thought p 195, Cambridge U. Press © 1988),'
oh, and he was a believer... at least when seducing girls... (see p. 224) "He talked to her about religion: 'I believe more in God the Father with the white beard than I believe in Nothing.'"
it took a couple of years (she was 15 when they first met, he tutored her in mathematics) "... but not long after her seventeenth birthday, they became lovers."
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jstan
climber
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Nov 22, 2009 - 12:33pm PT
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"PROVIDENCE, R.I. — Roman Catholic Bishop Thomas Tobin has banned Rep. Patrick Kennedy
from receiving Communion, the central sacrament of the church, in Rhode Island because of the
congressman's support for abortion rights, Kennedy said in a newspaper interview published
Sunday.
The decision by the outspoken prelate, reported on The Providence Journal's Web site,
significantly escalates a bitter dispute between Tobin, an ultra orthodox bishop, and Kennedy, a
son of the nation's most famous Roman Catholic family.
"The bishop instructed me not to take Communion and said that he has instructed the diocesan
priests not to give me Communion," Kennedy told the paper in an interview conducted Friday."
End of excerpt.
'Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's. Render unto me what is mine sayeth the lord.'
How is it that a tax-exempt religious organization can lobby the government in an attempt to
cause to be withdrawn a completely legal right of citizenship? The Supreme court has ruled on
abortion.
How can the tax exempt status be retained?
Simple.
By violating the laws. By not rendering unto Caesar what is Caesar's.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Nov 22, 2009 - 12:49pm PT
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Ed,
I don't talk about things I know nothing of. Didn't know all of that. And if I did know that I wouldn't probably mention it to the students (lol). . .
Although, a film my students see "NOVA: Einstein Revealed" they get to see the "playboy" himself at Princeton. Einstein had the same issues with young women students coming over for "study" sessions.
Well, if he truly was a believer and acting that way, he was deluding himself at the time.
Many great men of GOD (Samson, King David etc.) are brought down by the "Kryptonite" of beautiful women. I can understand it. We are all human and without blame.
As the good book says, hey even the Angels of GOD, the Sons of God couldn't resist . . .
Gen.6:2-4 (KJV)
[2] That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
[4] There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
We know he makes women beautiful and he makes them very desirable and the act itself is pretty fun and feels good. It is "Kryptonite" I tell you. Resist. Resist if you can. Marry and stay faithful to your wife, and wives stay faithful to your husbands.
When misstakes happen remember forgiveness 70 X 7!!!
This is a hard one . . . brought down many a good man and woman . . .
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Nov 22, 2009 - 12:56pm PT
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I suspected you wouldn't talk about that because it doesn't support your point-of-view on these things...
...you are aware that divine inspiration isn't the only form of inspiration...
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 22, 2009 - 01:02pm PT
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Christian priests say that God is unlimited.
Why the unlimited God should have only one son and not unlimited sons, they are unable to answer.
When Darwin's theory was first being taught in America, there was opposition from the Christians, and there was a famous court trial called the Scopes case, and the Bible was used against this so-called scientific theory.
But the Bible is so inadequate that they lost.
Bible could not be used because it is itself unscientific.
The lawyer proved that the Bible could not disprove the Darwin's theory.
They say that everything in bible has a hidden meaning. So the literal meaning is not true literally, it has a hidden meaning which is true.
And nobody has disclosed that hidden meaning.
Is this why: Creationists Take Another Called Strike - and run to dugout
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Nov 22, 2009 - 01:14pm PT
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Religious Bureaucracy destroys initiative.
There is little that bureaucrats hate more than innovation,
especially innovation that produces better results
than the old routines.
Improvements always make those at the top
of the heap look inept. Who enjoys appearing inept?
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MH2
climber
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Nov 22, 2009 - 04:58pm PT
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The wheel grinds slow and not that fine, but it does grind; returning to expand on an earlier post.
Even the statement the earth orbits the sun has limits. As a result of fairly well understood mechanical processes the motions of all the celestial bodies are changing. It will take awhile, the sun may have already burned out, or we may collide with another galaxy, but everything is changing. (jstan)
***
Any star regularly passes, or is passed by, other stars. Eventually, every star must approach so close to another star that the orbits of its planets (and the other star's planets, if any) are disrupted. Ultimately, all stars must tend to lose their planets to interstellar space.
If the diameter of the outer planet's orbit is about 200 million kilometers and if the star moves through the galaxy at about 50 kilometers per second, then there ought to be a close approach about every quadrillion years. As a guess, it may take several dozen such approaches to knock all the planets out of orbit. This would occur by 10^16 or 10^17 years.
A similar but slower process applies to galaxies.
*
from The Recursive Universe (cosmic complexity and the limits of scientific knowledge)
by William Poundstone
1985, Contemporary Books
Stars do burn out and the hydrogen that fuels them gets slowly used up. How long can we expect a universe that has stars in it? I find 100 trillion years as an order-of-magnitude estimate. Compare that to the mere 10 billion years (again approximate) that this universe has existed. We are not the skin of paint on top of the Eiffel Tower. We are probably in the layer of corrosion at its base.
So even though we may not resolve important questions there are not only a lot of other stars (as previously mentioned) there is a lot of time left for someone or something to get it right.
Looking a little further ahead, I see that proton decay is still hypothetical and experiment has placed a lower limit a bit above 10^33 years on the half-life.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 22, 2009 - 05:47pm PT
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Darwinian evolution is a FACT.
Creationism is a THEORY.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Nov 22, 2009 - 05:50pm PT
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What on earth makes you believe THAT?
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 22, 2009 - 06:10pm PT
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well, Chaz, the Tooth Fairy and Santa are also "theories", right?
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Nov 22, 2009 - 06:14pm PT
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I figured you'd admit your beliefs are baesd on faith and nothing more, and I was right.
No different from fundamentalist Christians basing their beliefs on faith.
All you can do to prove you're right is point at a book somebody wrote, just as the fundamentalist Christians do.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 22, 2009 - 06:25pm PT
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Chaz, seriously, do you really believe god created the earth in six days?
You have read Genesis.........
Are you a Creationist, Chaz? You buy in to the Genesis "theory"?
Or do you think it is "fact"?
How old is El Cap? The Grand Canyon? Under 6000 years old,Chaz?
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Nov 22, 2009 - 06:31pm PT
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And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
The Parable of the Sower
Again he began to teach beside the sea. And a very large crowd gathered about him, so that he got into a boat and sat in it on the sea, and the whole crowd was beside the sea on the land. And he was teaching them many things in parables, and in his teaching he said to them: “Listen! A sower went out to sow. And as he sowed, some seed fell along the path, and the birds came and devoured it. Other seed fell on rocky ground, where it did not have much soil, and immediately it sprang up, since it had no depth of soil. And when the sun rose, it was scorched, and since it had no root, it withered away. Other seed fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up and choked it, and it yielded no grain. And other seeds fell into good soil and produced grain, growing up and increasing and yielding thirtyfold and sixtyfold and a hundredfold.” And he said, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear.”
The Purpose of the Parables
And when he was alone, those around him with the twelve asked him about the parables. And he said to them, “To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables, so that
“they may indeed see but not perceive,
and may indeed hear but not understand,
lest they should turn and be forgiven.”
And he said to them, “Do you not understand this parable? How then will you understand all the parables? The sower sows the word. And these are the ones along the path, where the word is sown: when they hear, Satan immediately comes and takes away the word that is sown in them. And these are the ones sown on rocky ground: the ones who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with joy. And they have no root in themselves, but endure for a while; then, when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately they fall away. And others are the ones sown among thorns. They are those who hear the word, but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches and the desires for other things enter in and choke the word, and it proves unfruitful. But those that were sown on the good soil are the ones who hear the word and accept it and bear fruit, thirtyfold and sixtyfold and a hundredfold.”
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Nov 22, 2009 - 06:31pm PT
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How the hell should I know, Norton?
But I'm not so arrogant to run around pronouncing something not proven as "fact".
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jstan
climber
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Nov 22, 2009 - 06:45pm PT
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If you go to the dictionary and look up "theory" you will find more than five meanings drawn so
broadly this discussion is rendered pointless.
No help there. So, if you will, allow me to advance what I think is a good common usage for the
word.
Theory: A hypothetical model allowing the relationships between observable quantities in the
material world to be predicted. Application of the scientific method and the addition of new and
better observations necessarily causes theories to be subject to continual improvement.
Darwinian Evolution is a theory that has readily survived more than 100 years of rigorous testing.
Creationism, provides no insight as the the relationships between observable quantities and by the
above definition is therefore not a theory.
Since it provides no insight as to the state of observables there is no known way for creationism to be tested.
Not being a scholar of middle eastern documents and a student of things Aramaic I have little to
add to a discussion of the creation of the world in "6 days." To understand this better, it would
seem we would need comprehensive access to and study of archeological artifacts relating to
both the first source for this idea and expertise in all the translations active in bringing this
phrase to us.
Over the past sixty years the data has now achieved sufficient precision to persuade many that
the formation of what we now take to be the entire known universe took place just under
14,000,000,000 earth years ago. The earth year is taken to be the length of time the earth today
takes to complete one circumnavigation of its star, the sun.
Edit:
Wes:
By the definition I have offered, this is true. I would also point out that something entirely devoid
of relationship with observables in the material world can't have any impact upon the material
world. It can have impacts upon the function of highly complex neural networks such as those
found between our ears. But it can not help us find food, water, and shelter in the world where
we find ourselves, alone.
And I think this is where the nexus of the debate on faith resides. If we have a group of many neural nets all interacting and depending upon one another, what resides in one neural net can affect these interactions. Were you to be lashed to a stake with firewood all around and an interlocutor carrying a torch were to ask you, "DO YOU BELIEVE IN SANTA CLAUS?" the idea of Santa Claus could become relevant to your material suvival.
History tells us this.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 22, 2009 - 06:48pm PT
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Yeah, Charles Darwin was an arrogant, ignorant fool.
Evolution should not be taught in school because it is just a "theory".
Santa, the Tooth Fairy, and God have all been proven beyond doubt.
Believe what you want.
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Nov 22, 2009 - 06:49pm PT
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You and the world you are standing on is proof of God!
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