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corniss chopper
climber
breaking the speed of gravity
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Jul 14, 2011 - 10:58pm PT
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Gary -Albedo change via the sierra wave mechanism is the likely culprit. Palisade ice cores have abundant central valley dust and soot from Ag burns and prescribed burns in the NF's. Temperature rise is not the cause.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 14, 2011 - 11:04pm PT
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And your still skiing/SBing on the Hill and the Sierra BC lakes are still frozen solid above 12K.
Hey The Chief, have you heard about the Massive Heat Wave taking over the eastern part of our country? How come you don't write about *that*?
Or the record drought in Texas?
Oh never mind.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jul 14, 2011 - 11:12pm PT
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The sun.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Jul 14, 2011 - 11:27pm PT
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Chief....there are still frozen lakes above tree line in the sierra...? this must mean we are sliding into an ice age... Judging by the photo of you next to your truck your navy uniform must have had an opening over your heart for your hand to slip into.....
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Jul 15, 2011 - 08:25am PT
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Yes, joke , Chief.....Waiting for your punch line...
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jul 15, 2011 - 10:48am PT
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And the path of least resistance to Ed's proposition is..........
How come we already know the answer?
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Jul 15, 2011 - 12:14pm PT
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If you're the type who can find entertainment in watching ice melt, the Arctic is putting on a show. Total ice extent is now clearly the lowest we've seen this early in the year, and dropping by more than 100,000 square kilometers per day.
http://www.ijis.iarc.uaf.edu/en/home/seaice_extent.htm
Last year a couple of yachts managed to circumnavigate the Arctic Ocean, transiting both Russia's Northern Sea Route and Canada's Northwest Passage. Will both routes open again this summer? Looks quite possible, here's a detail of the NW Passage from yesterday.
http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/subsets/?mosaic=Arctic
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jul 15, 2011 - 12:22pm PT
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Bruce Kay, it may not be much of a glacier, but it is a glacier.
How much did it grow since the late 30's Gary?
Thanks for not answering, Chief. CC did answer, indirectly, however. The Palisade Glacier in the '70s was almost up to the level of the moraine. So it's dropped what, 30, 40 feet?
In a few years, Bruce might be right after all.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Jul 15, 2011 - 01:56pm PT
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Base, you're quite right about ice off the North Slope. The orange line in today's NSIDC map shows the median historical extent of sea ice on this date; white shows where it is now.
http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/
Or here's another view, from the University of Bremen. Ice is nearly gone from Hudson Bay, Baffin Bay and Kara Sea; reduced in the Barents and East Siberia; breaking up (though it doesn't show yet) in the Canadian Archipelago.
http://www.iup.uni-bremen.de:8084/amsr/
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 15, 2011 - 04:29pm PT
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Gee ED, jumping on the ridicule and demeaning bandwagon...
No different than the rest of the fantatics.
Pot, kettle, again.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 15, 2011 - 04:33pm PT
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elitist
LOL.
Thank you, Sarah Palin.
You're right, Chief Big Mouth, we should be listening to some guy who constantly contradicts himself and who doesn't even understand how to read a graph instead of smart, educated, experienced people who actually know what they are talking about.
Yeah, give me an elitist anytime.
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corniss chopper
climber
breaking the speed of gravity
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Jul 15, 2011 - 04:39pm PT
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Origin and radiative forcing of black carbon transported to the Himalayas and Tibetan Plateau. Atmospheric Chemistry and Physics
http://www.co2science.org/articles/V14/N20/C3.php
...Clearly, the current snow-albedo-altering impact of BC wafting over the
Himalayas and the Tibetan Plateau vastly overshadows its direct radiative
warming impact, which suggests that the most logical way to strive to avert
the melting of Himalayan glaciers would be to reduce Asian BC emissions...
Is the melting of the Sierra glaciers caused by this same process?\
Yes.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jul 15, 2011 - 05:52pm PT
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Please site a study ref for your claim that the PAL GLACIER proper has decreased at the levels you indicate since the 70's. Thanks.
No, study, Chief. Just observations from guys that have been climbing in the Sierra since the '60s.
It's lost a lot of ice, by Kali standards anyway.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Jul 15, 2011 - 06:03pm PT
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Must be hundreds of historical photos among the old Sierra hands on this site, but as a Colorado boy I've only got this one, showing the snout of North Palisade glacier in fall 1968.
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corniss chopper
climber
breaking the speed of gravity
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Jul 15, 2011 - 07:22pm PT
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Wes - credit where credit is due: it was Al Gore's Global Warming Conspiracy to rule the world. But he's cashed out and in hiding these days.
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Dirty Snow Caused by Soot and Pollution Causes Early Runoff
They found that soot warms up the snow and the air above it by up to 1.2 degrees Fahrenheit, causing snow to melt.
http://geology.com/press-release/dirty-snow/
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Since you Warmist's can't accept the fact that dirty snow melts faster
due to BC it's a damning admission of your ideological tunnel vision.
The loss of face you'll all suffer for being wrong about CO2 is the real
thing you should fear.
Cheers
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Lennox
climber
just southwest of the center of the universe
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Jul 15, 2011 - 07:46pm PT
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The Chief has shown time and again in this thread that he is both intellectually dishonest and self-deceptive.
He even has a therapist who reinforces or enables him in his prejudices, rather than challenging them.
In his mind, anyone who disagrees with him is a deluded fanatical elitist.
By his nature he is anti-intellectual, but is willing to cherry-pick from those "arrogant elitist scientists" whose shoddy research he can use as a cudgel to try to knock down the much worse elitists whose overwhelming evidence contradicts his beliefs which he is compelled to protect, reality be damned.
He is not an honest debater--I think this was pretty well established dozens of pages ago on this thread. It is futile to argue, discuss or debate with someone who is convinced that he has nothing to learn.
Edit: And CC doesn't even attempt to create the illusion of debating; he just throws turds in the campfire.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 15, 2011 - 07:53pm PT
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Spot-on, Lennox.
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Lennox
climber
just southwest of the center of the universe
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Jul 15, 2011 - 09:18pm PT
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. . .mind control.
ROTFLMFAO!!!
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Jul 15, 2011 - 10:01pm PT
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LOL...ROTFLMAO...this thread is so hilarious..reminds me of when i was pumping iron with Arnold and his entourage of beef-cake body guards....Lots of posing and manly laughter....ho , ho , ho ....Hee , hee, hee....My truck is bigger than yours...My dick is a harley you gotta to kick it to start it....LOL....!
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