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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 5, 2009 - 04:24am PT
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Two-thirty am.
Iced my leg at about 10 pm or so, pain was
partially relieved, and I went to sleep.
I slept two and a half hours, the most since
this whole thing started. Woke at 2 am
to lots of pain
again. Am going to try to repeat the process,
of getting some sleep, that is.
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 5, 2009 - 07:06am PT
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Four Forty-Five a.m.
Got another two hours of sleep, thankfully, with
ice on my leg the whole time. Woke up
to ice water spilling from plastic bag...
all over my thight... but
also raging pain in my knee. Couldn't tell
if it was the ice water or pain that woke me up.
Must try again now, with new ice bag, if I
can get past this knee pain...
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 5, 2009 - 11:51am PT
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Thank you, RJ,
I think you are very right. Just to be able to sleep a total of
four hours has made a difference. I can tell you, though there is
still pain, I felt a positive effect on my body from any small
bit of sleep. I too do not think the healing can really begin until
I can sleep.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C. Small wall climber.
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Pat, if you can, acquire some gel packs and keep them in the freezer. They're much more convenient to use than bags of ice, and widely available. Ask around - you may be able to borrow some.
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 5, 2009 - 01:58pm PT
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Thanks, Mighty,
that is a good idea.
I just got back from the dentist, to finish the
tooth thing, put on the crown, and just that
little bit has really tired me. But the good
news is I think I might be able to sleep
some more. Something seems to have happened
virtually overnight, where I am getting more
and more able to sleep. Leg still hurts,
but last night's sleep episodes and all-night icing have had
more of a positive effect than anything so far.
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 5, 2009 - 04:16pm PT
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Ok, started to drift off, thought, "Good,
I'm going to be able to sleep at last." Then roaring,
searing, crushing, murderous pain... in my knee and above.
I could only get up and crutch around the room
in agony and, to take my mind off the pain (which it
doesn't really do, but... ), I throw
in another entry here.
This thread must be dreadfully boring
if not entirely depressing and reduntant. If I had
energy I might be able to respond to other
threads or start something interesting. I
wonder if it is appropriate for me to
share this stuff, as it's not too climbing
related, only the initial fall. Everyone
has been so very kind and caring, maybe I
became addicted to the solace...
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GLee
climber
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Pat,
Please check your email concerning gel packs. As a concerned less active climber, who is also a medical technologist, I phoned the laboratory at Family Health West.
You have probably already been called by now from the FHW Lab, but I have emailed the telephone numbers of the three main hospitals in Grand Junction.
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 5, 2009 - 04:48pm PT
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Holy cow, Glee, thank you immensely. What a friend!
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MH2
climber
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Patrick,
I worked for 9 years as a research technician in the Anesthesiology Department of the University of Washington in Seattle. One of their guiding lights at the time was John J. Bonica, who had devoted his medical career to better treatment of pain in cancer patients.
Historically, medicine has been mostly focussed on keeping people alive, and less serious issues, including pain, didn't get a lot of attention, unless they interfered with the bigger goal. Surgeons amputated legs and removed cataracts before anesthesia but such procedures go a lot smoother with pain control.
Pain control still really only works well for so-called acute pain, which we can define as pain of short duration, say two weeks or less. Acute pain can still be plenty bad but drugs can control it.
Chronic pain, as in cancer, is much harder to treat. Narcotics work but you have to keep upping the dose as people habituate and the drugs may alter the person's personality and motivation in harmful ways.
At U of W they tried the multi-disciplinary approach. That meant they tried acupuncture, hypnotism, drugs, counseling, just about anything. There is still a large empirical side to the practice of medicine, and you don't have to know how something works for it to be effective. Almost any intervention will give some people pain relief, but only for a while.
Although the nervous system usually adapts to constant or patterned input, pain can be a little different. In the 80s researchers had described "wind-up" neurons in the dorsal horn of the spinal cord. Pain can under some circumstances render these neurons hyper-excitable. An analogous situation is when you burn a patch of skin and it stays sensitive for a while.
Whether for good reason or not, in medicine it is often considered desirable to "stay ahead of the pain." That is, to treat it before it gets bad if you have any reason to suspect that it might.
A pharmacologist once gave us a lecture that was about all the times drugs are given for marginal benefit. As a counter to that, to keep us from getting an idea that all drugs are bad, he praised the power of short-term antibiotics and pain relief. He said that if he ever broke his leg, when he got to the ER he would tell them to keep giving him narcotics until either the pain was gone or he passed out, whichever came first.
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 5, 2009 - 05:49pm PT
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Glee, I got an email, but nothing was in it, and
my computer said it was a dangerous message not to open.
Hmm. Strange. Did get a call from the hospital, and
they said I could come over and take as many gell packs
as I want. Great!
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 5, 2009 - 05:52pm PT
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Thanks, MH2. I wish they had something that would touch
this pain. I would gobble it down like M&M's.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Anybody catch the Brokaw report about the quality of medical care in the Grand Valley?
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 5, 2009 - 06:59pm PT
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Ok, just for a little comic relief. I got myself
into the car, drove over to the hospital, got into
the front door on my crutches, to pick up the gel
packs they phoned to say were ready. I got them
into the car, drove home, and when I opened the box
every gel pack had written on it in dark bold letters,
"NOT FOR HUMAN USE OR TO BE USED AS A THERAPEUTIC
COLD COMPRESS!!"
So now what do I do. Use 'em anyway?
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GLee
climber
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Pat,
Screw the lawyer speak. You are good to go. Check your yoice mail. You can always wash and dry them with dish soap.
Wash, dry, put in a zip lock bag, chill/freeze and use.
Greg
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 5, 2009 - 10:06pm PT
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Thanks for the kind words.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Feeling your pain bro!
Peace
Karl
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C. Small wall climber.
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Pat, the important thing is not to apply the gel packs directly to your skin - always have a cloth or towel between. They can be very cold (or hot), so wrap them up first. Depends on the thickness of the cloth and how cold/hot the gel pack is, so maybe start with two or three layers, then go down. Regardless, if the gel pack doesn't feel comfortable (if not soothing), remove it.
You probably already figured out that gel packs aren't very good to eat. If you break one, dispose of it safely - I think they can poison pets.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Pat-
After looking at Karl's photos, it occurred to me that you should be taking some of your leg too. Clearly this is one of the epics of your life and should be documented.
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Jello
Social climber
No Ut
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Pat,I can't give any better advice than you're already getting. But in checking back to this thread it seems maybe there's some moments or even overall lessening of the pain. Keep on keepin' on, my friend. I'm sending the best thoughts your way.
-Jeff
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