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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Mar 27, 2009 - 08:32pm PT
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Anders, now I see it's a good thing I like medium rare on the rare side....maybe I'll just get a good singe when they steak me...hehe. Thanks for laughter, Mighty Hiker....."a merry heart doeth good like medicine." A quote from the one and only real King David....bitd. :D
Edit: Rokjox, I did not see your post. I will try and find it and address it. If it's really long....I may have a problem. Life is getting shorter all the time. :D
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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Mar 27, 2009 - 08:39pm PT
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Rox, what was Jesus like? Was this some kind of hallucination? Because that's what that's usually called. Can anyone corroborate this meeting? Didja take a picture??
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Mar 27, 2009 - 09:11pm PT
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I must be part American Indian...I do better with stories. This is my story for Norton and jstan.
I never prayed for a pony. I lived in Chicago, IL and every Sunday night I watched Disneyland. I So wanted to go to Disneyland. I adored Tinkerbell, Jimminy Cricket and the Song, "If you wish upon a star, makes no difference who you are."
I asked God in my prayers each night, "could You get my family to Disneyland ?" About a year later my Da announced that our family was moving to Orange, CA...right next to Disneyland.
FAST FORWARD to 15 months ago. Husband Dan, love of my life, is in a medically induced coma in ICU. After a month of 24/7, sleeping there on two cardtable chairs at night, it became apparent to me that my most important request to my God was going to be answered No.
Worse beyond anything I ever thought...I had to make the decision to take Dan off the ventilator.
It's been the most horribly challenging 14 months of my life. No gifted, wonderful husband, the economy has caused incredible problems beyond what I ever thought this gal could handle.
BUT... if not for my Father God I would not even be here or alive..... and I would not have been married to one man for a long time with much adventure and love. Nor, had 4 wonderful (now grown) kids.
You see, in my early 20's I was hell bent on destruction. God sent in the (Navy) Seals and rescued me..gave me an incredible life when Jesus came into mine. Wish I could give you all the details, too long, writing them in a book.
Lynne knows Jesus is real and I follow Him to the best of my ability. Jesus did not like religions either, by the way.
When you've been rescued you never forget the rescuer.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Mar 27, 2009 - 09:25pm PT
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Lynne, I sincerely am sorry to hear about losing your husband.
My wife lost her father this past Sunday, so much emotion.
You take the time to mention to wanted to go to Disneyland.
You then say you got to go.
Am I to assume this means your god answered your prayer and talked to your father to take you to Disneyland?
This then proved to you the existence of a god?
Is this why you brought up this memory?
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Mar 27, 2009 - 09:34pm PT
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Norton ! Life is ..... well life. All the things that happen from beginning to where you are today create your foundation and framework of belief. Why do yo take one story from the framework and ask a question that pertains to the whole? Lynne
And why do people try to say there is no God when they've never even tried or made an honest effort to meet him.....
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Mar 27, 2009 - 09:42pm PT
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Lynne, I brought it up because you made a point of bringing it up. You felt it was an important moment from your past.
You SEEMED to me to bringing it up as an example to state that the fulfillment of your desire to go to disneyland was related to the foundation of your belief in your god.
Seemed there would be no other reason to bring up this childhood memory.
Ok, so I missed your point on the disneyland trip.
What was the point?
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jstan
climber
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Mar 27, 2009 - 09:52pm PT
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Lynne:
I have not seen any evidence that there is a god. Until I see some persuasive data I am proceeding under the assumption supported by the data. I think no one can state it as a fact gods don't exist. That's proving a negative.
In truth we know relatively few things as absolute certainties. (The data does seem very strong indicating the Earth is going around the Sun.) Every day we go with the data we have. Every day. I am not treating religion any different from all the other questions I have each day.
If you think I am saying gods don't exist, you are accepting an untruth. If you feel a lot of people are telling you this, you need to question them more closely. Just as you need to understand well what your god is telling you, you need to understand well what other people are saying to you.
I would have emailed you this but my email is broken. I have asked to have it fixed for me but I am just not getting any cooperation. While I was at it I also asked that I be given a browser that works with OS9. But I knew that was asking too much.
Even Bill Gates has given up on that.
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Mar 27, 2009 - 10:20pm PT
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John Wrote: "As I read it the neuroscientists are trying to characterize the kinds of brain function associated with, how shall we call it, "religious thought."
Hi, John. I'm with you on that one, and have done a fair amount of investigating on this topic as well. What confused me was a quote from an earlier post: i.e., that ". . . the emotions attached to religion and God are nothing more than manifestations of brain circuitry."
Though not ovetly stated, one can easily infer from the above that what's being said, in causal terms, is that said brain circuitry created said emotions, or that religion and God are the direct consequence of neural firings in our bean.
Another interesting thing is the wonky notion that "emotions" are somehow the sum and substance of spiritual experience. Most spiritual paths that involve meditation strive to detach from emotions, "religious thoughts," sensations, memories, impressions, and all other content, including consciousness itself. This last one is a whopper, to be sure, and will tie the discriminating mind in knots trying to figure it out, said "knot" being just something else to detach from.
Also interesting is that, while that article talks about the similarities of brain function associated with people speaking in tongues, meditatiors and so forth, the strictly scientific studies I have seen disagree with this pretty roundly. Especially the tests that use a QEEG (Quantitative EEG) for comprehensive brain mapping. For instance, it's amazing the difference of brain function between doing meditation with eyes open or eyes closed. Eyes closed is closely related to "states," whereas eyes open (as in Zazen meditation) is more associated with a clear, empty and quiet mind. Also, long time Zen meditators had a greatly elevated amount of Delta or slow waves that would trigger seizures is someone who has not done the years of brain training.
Anyhow, it's all very interesting stuff.
JL
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 27, 2009 - 11:15pm PT
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The Symptoms of Kali-yuga
In the Western world, theologians have been unable to scientifically present the laws of God or, indeed, God Himself, and thus in Western intellectual history a rigid dichotomy has arisen between theology and science. In an attempt to resolve this conflict, some theologians have agreed to modify their doctrines so that they conform not only to proven scientific facts but even to pseudo scientific speculations and hypotheses, which, though unproven, are hypocritically included within the realm of "science."
On the other hand, some fanatical theologians disregard the scientific method altogether and insist on the veracity of their antiquated, sectarian dogmas.
Material science has moved into the destructive realm of gross materialism, while speculative Western philosophy has drifted into the superficiality of relativistic ethics and inconclusive linguistic analysis.
With so many of the best Western minds dedicated to materialistic analysis, naturally much of Western religious life, separated from the intellectual mainstream, is dominated by irrational fanaticism and unauthorized mystic and mystery cults.
Satyam, truthfulness, is also diminishing, simply because people do not know what the truth is. Without knowing the Absolute Truth, one cannot clearly understand the real significance or purpose of life merely by amassing huge quantities of relative or hypothetical truths.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Mar 27, 2009 - 11:23pm PT
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I don't think you crazies realize that there is more,,,,
Werner and others see it,it's threre......
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jstan
climber
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Mar 27, 2009 - 11:38pm PT
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John:
I am not being facetious when I allow 100 years for sorting this out. This really will be the biggest thing since agriculture and it won’t be easy or obvious. That's why both of us are getting excited.
"a quote from an earlier post: i.e., that ". . . the emotions attached to religion and God are nothing more than manifestations of brain circuitry."
Off hand this does not sound like me and I can't find where I might have posted it. I do subscribe to a shading of it along the great theme that Lynne opened for us. I don't know about you but I have a real appreciation for what happens when one falls. What we feel and what we do when faced with this opportunity is at least partly a personal learned response. But many survival protocols are also wired into all brains. When you think you have bought the farm, if you survive you generally have no recollection. And you wake up in the night while revisiting events that you felt threatened your survival. So the next time you see that truck headed for you your response is already prepared, instantaneous, and largely reflexive.
I think the question I have tried to pose is whether there may in fact be other protocols for survival associated with social exposure with which we might not be as familiar as we are with those mentioned above. We are immensely complex machines built to survive and we have long been adapting to inclusion in a society. Our need for society had to have begun when we lost our canine teeth maybe five to seven million years ago and certainly was well developed by the time every critter on four legs became able to catch us maybe three million years ago. Absent large changes in our brain and our forming packs - we were dinner.
I know little about EKG's but I think its ability to locate precisely where responses are arising is a problem. Possibly if we used a million sensors instead of a mere dozen there might be an improvement. (I can imagine you might program a sensor array to respond to a point in virtual space and blank out all the other synapses as noise. To sweep that point through the brain would just involve code. But what do I know?) Given a few more decades of development in other technologies such as MRI, tracking blood flow we may be able to do a lot. I know I personally am not anxious to submit to stereotactic probes. I am Swiss cheese-like enough as it is.
You mention eyes open versus eyes closed. As I understand it our image processing system is one of the largest consumers of energy in the body and it is a distributed system. Processing is going on all along the distribution network. It uses up huge amounts of processing. So much so I have the feeling I can go twice as far hiking in bright sunlight if I have sunglasses. When the eyes are open I suspect many of the other brain functions are diverted to overlaid code( if you will) and their implementation is very different. We do these kinds of things with a CPU and I am reluctant to assume evolution is not as smart as are we. Indeed, all the available data suggests the reverse.
Fascinating stuff.
On more than one occasion I have thought a recent idea of mine to be quite brilliant till I read of a classical Greek scholar who not only had the same idea but was able to explain it more clearly than could I. That immense explosion of knowledge and culture was powered by the introduction of agriculture. What else do you suppose might now come to pass if we have a second infusion of this magnitude?
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Mar 27, 2009 - 11:47pm PT
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Please, help, "great theme Lynne opened for us"....what theme??
( Steak, medium rare on the stake. bwahahah)
We need to all get back on the same piece of papyrus. I have No idea what yo talking about now.
I remember in biology and chem class you set down the facts simply and concisely.
In Philo class there were no facts, per se, but one set down their premises in a simple, readable format that all could look at, comment on and then discuss together.
This Thread needs some development and refinement in ideas and thoughts if it wants to "evolve" into something. Jess saying so we can....continue. Lynne
EDIT: We have been interupted with a very important message...where the heck and how did the Sherry Advertisement come on ? It's not even a full moon.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Mar 27, 2009 - 11:48pm PT
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I wonder if Sherry Zhang could be persuaded to make similar posts to political threads?
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Mar 27, 2009 - 11:59pm PT
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jstan, the great thing about God is he's so God he makes himself simple enough for little kiddies and us who aren't so smart to get to know him and his wonderful awesomeness.
God is way beyond those that try to put Him in a box and figure Him out. He owns the cattle on a 1000 hills yet he cares enough to number the hairs on our head and knows when one sparrow dies.
He likes me and you and everyone .....Peace, Lynnie
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jstan
climber
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Mar 28, 2009 - 12:02am PT
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Lynne:
You pointed out that your faith had relieved you of your fear of falling.
Fear of falling is a survival mechanism.
I am asserting that your faith is also a survival mechanism.
AMAZING if so.
We have two survival mechanisms contending!
Following that thread is very revealing.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Mar 28, 2009 - 12:02am PT
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I just clicked on the shopping spam link and got hooked up to "sherry" on live chat.
I told her to stop posting and trollin her spam on our website or we would have her website shut down.
She lied and said it was not her, but that she would look in to it.
She created a username and password and logged specifically to spam us.
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Blitzo
Social climber
Earth
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Mar 28, 2009 - 12:08am PT
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I'm an ordained minister and if you ever read the bible you will know that god couldn't exist!
Just ask Chongo. It is physically impossible!
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Mar 28, 2009 - 12:24am PT
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jstan, no I did Not point out that faith kept me from a fear of falling. I mentioned at least 3 times that this lack of the horrible fear I felt in the past was ....a Gift from God.
A gift.....nothing I summoned up. God is love, pure love, and if we get in his arms he will hold us through all the hurts and incredible pain and loss and questions and wondering we go through on our journey from this life to eternal life. Jess sayin' cause yo know I be living this stuff on a daily basis.
Each day is a royal challenge....to freak out or be in peace and joy cause God said He be takin' care of Lynnie ....as Bruce S. says in his song....I Be Countin' On a Miracle. Smiles, lrl
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jstan
climber
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Mar 28, 2009 - 12:49am PT
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Lynne:
Don't ever stop holding on to what has meaning for you.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Mar 28, 2009 - 01:59am PT
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hey there norton... say, i been scouting around a bit to see if there were more of these sherry zhang stuff seeping in, as it dropped into the middle of conversation, etc, on another thread/post...
and oddly... she has NOT posted in the "best shoe" thread of all things... but HAD posted in the "death cool?" thread.... and NOW here...
sure out of contex.... :O
well, i just dropped in here, though, to say hey there to ol' lynne... but it appears she may be gone to sleep already... judging by the "what song are you listening to" post...
if you are still here, lynne... happy trails...
i will check out what you all were sharing now...
carry on, guys.... :)
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