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Licky
Mountain climber
California
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 1, 2007 - 07:43pm PT
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The route you guys are speculating about was as follows.
They flew west out of Mexico and north along the US coast, within US controlled airspace and on radar. The ATC reported that the plane had disappeared off of the radar at Santa Barbara. This was when they turned north and dropped down below radar level. From Santa Barbara they flew toward Reno where they were to land at Black Rock, the site of the now Burning Man event. They would off load there, refuel, and return to Mexico for their final load and then return home.
If you take a look at the map you can see that Lower Merced Pass Lake is in a very close line along the path between Santa Barbara and Reno. This trip was not unusual for them nor was it new. However, if you are an experienced pilot, you can appreciate that they did this in the dark and didn't attract the attention of US Customs, DEA, or the military.
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Dynoho
Sport climber
Huntington Beach, CA
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OK, enough teasing....
When is the book coming out? This is a must have. Are you getting close?
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Jim Wilcox
Boulder climber
Santa Barbara
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Kinda thought it was high time that this thread finally got a face.
chopper pilot Jon
Doesn't look the sort to panic easily, musta gone down with a fight
Last row-5th from the right
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Darnell
Big Wall climber
Chicago
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I support the right to bear arms, er, um, I mean,. I support the right to arm bears. including the Chicago Bears.
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Ragz
climber
Tartarus, black hole of the internet
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You still haven't offered a response to my two previous questions about debris path orientation.
I was more interested in the real CAUSE of the crash.
Whatever, keep it a mystery. If there is an answer I guess I'lll have to read about it.
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Licky
Mountain climber
California
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 2, 2007 - 01:13am PT
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Jim...Yep, that's him. Check your email
Ragz...I think in my discription of the route and the location of Lower Merced Pass Lake you have everything there. Unless I'm missing something, let me know.
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skitch
Trad climber
Logan, UT
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First off I can't believe anyone would blame the pilots for the lost lifes of the people who died long after the wreck of the plane, first off it was those individuals choices to begin selling drugs in the first place. Look at largo, his life doesn't appear to be negatively affected by it. Personal choices are just that.
Now what i intended to write, you should go around Yosemite and ask a few of those people, I worked for guy at the Yoesemite garage this summer who was there in the seventies and claimed to have smoked some of that nasty weed. he claimed it was soaked with jet fuel and wasn't even worth it. Anyways there are quite a few lifers around there, and almost all of them used to smoke, so that would be a good place to get more stories from non-climbers.
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Licky
Mountain climber
California
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 2, 2007 - 03:50pm PT
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Skitch...good suggestion, thanks. Next time I'm in the Valley I'll poke around
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VW
Big Wall climber
CA
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Give it a rest chainsaw. Your caricature of this lurching, introverted, paranoid 70s climber is stale. We've all had it rough at times. Some of us still do. People want to hear about this stuff. Its the golden lore of an amazing sport. Its what grinds the wheels of imagination, propels our search on high ever farther, and motivates us toward the mystery that we are up there for in the first place. There is nothing like the hallowed, crazy, mystical, mostly ridiculous, often tragic, ever surprising history of the greatest sport on Earth. How we are all connected, through this ethereal thread of story and circumstance, is what makes us climbers - through and through - heart, mind and soul. This is a great tale. Let them write it. I'll read it.
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mission
Social climber
boulder,co
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I heard a good story about the Crash Buds when I was climbing it Chamonix in the summer of '78. Give me a call and I'll tell you what I can remember.
Thom Engelbach
303 818 2111
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bruce800
Big Wall climber
Colorado Springs, CO
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Yea I remember. I was cimbing there just after the crash. Lots of climbers had pot and were trading is for climbing gear, tools, and even cars.
B-
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Licky,
This sure is an interesting thread. The story is a very fascinating one and should be told. It's kind of a climbing mythology and lore that just so happens to be true. It will be nice to know the full story eventually.
Someone you should get in touch with, and she is a writer for Mammoth Times, her initials are C.R. She was a neighbor of mine on Mustang Mesa, near Bishop, for the longest time but she is sadly no longer. However, she still writes for MT. She told me about the old time truck that she and her boyfriend still have, and how it was some how involved with the big infamous event in '77. She knows I climb and would be familiar with the story, and she just told me this one day out of the blue when we were chatting outside. She is a great lady and a very good writer. She is the one who writes most of the more progessive articles for the MT. We definately see eye to eye, politically and environmentally. She would be someone to talk to for sure. She is one brave soul. You should read some of her articles. She is not afraid to speak truth to power.
Well, you obviuosly know what ultimately brought the plane down, and I don't blame you for not wanting to give the whole story away. But you said that it wasn't the weather . . .
"And for the weather, well it didn't figure into the event."
You ultimately know, but my speculation would be the "Sierra Wave" might have brought the plane down. The number of flights that have been brought down over the years in the Sierras due to the Sierra Wave and the rotor clouds of turbulence associated with these massive wave events and the often lenticular clouds that form as a result, is quite high. What many people don't realize is that they are more frequent during the winter months, and it can happen day or night and even on clear weather and sunny "blue-bird" days. These conditions can easily lead to structural failure of aircraft. It is like the hand of God swatting a fly out of the sky.
I encourage everyone to read the story of the research done on the Sierra Wave in Bishop during the '40s and '50s. There are historical markers now at Bishop Airport commemmorating these well known and famous studies. They studied the Sierra Wave by sailplanes/gliders! To surf the Sierra Wave in a glider is a dream of most sailplane pilots. Not an experience for the faint of heart. The following book tells the entire story . . .
The Book to read is: "Exploring the Monster: Mountain lee waves : the aerial elevator" by Robert F Whelan (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/Exploring-monster-Mountain-aerial-elevator/dp/1891118323/sr=1-1/qid=1170890041/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-6338876-7688405?ie=UTF8&s=books
You can also buy the book at Spellbinders in Bishop. It's a great read. You will come to appreciate and respect the Sierra Wave more and understand the massive awe inspiring forces involved in it when you read all about the study done in Bishop.
As I said, many a plane flight in the Sierras that have crashed, came down as a result of the Sierra Wave. Sometimes it is an invisible killer, and you'll never know until it hits you.
Klimmer
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Off-Width Loving Crack Whore
Trad climber
SLO
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The first time I heard about this was on my first true Valley Trip. Of course it was mostly getting drunk and wobbling up Swan Slab, but I met a guy nicknamed "Spew" who claimed to be hanging in the high country with a local Valley hardman that has the initials T.T.
"Spew" claimed to have witnessed the actual crash and that he was one of the guys on scene first pulling out bales of "Acupolco Gold".
He also claimed that this was the story that inspired "Cliffhanger"
His whereabouts... somewhere in Arizona
Disclaimer: He also claimed to be Chonngo Chucks personal belay slave and that he would gladly haul for anyone if they paid him in King Cobra.
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Wonder
climber
WA
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Rokjox, What you posted above makes total since. I was living in Idyllwild at the time. The first shipments were cool, but then the rest started showing up. we didnt get alot of the good stuff.
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Wonder
climber
WA
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rokjox, do I know you?
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duke of badness
Sport climber
port orchard,wa
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To the people writing the book about the 1977 Lodestar... I am very much attached and have known I would need and wanted to get in touch with Pam Glisky for many years. It is unbelievable that I am even here writing, as I am... I have a message to her and one question for her. M. Costello said something many years ago and I believe he, at the time, told me the truth---but to verify by Pam only. My phone # for Pam only is 360-265-4952.
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Wonder
climber
WA
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I'm freaked!! He takes the same ferry as me. Serious!
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Wonder
climber
WA
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No, I didnt say that. I'm moving next month.
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factor2
climber
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If you write the book I will buy it.
And I will give it to my family for birthdays and chanuka.
Recommend it to all of my friends and enemies.
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Licky
Mountain climber
California
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 9, 2007 - 01:04am PT
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Klimmer, thanks, I've talked to CR.
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