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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
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Werner and Healyje
My wife took a sociology class recently where they had to wander the campus and find a stone that would talk to them. They had to sit with the stone and have a conversation. Seems this is what the Indians used to do. Ask Ron, maybe he has a view on this.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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I definitely missed that filming the FA was involved and on doing a quick look at their production company's site you can see they were promoting this film before the attempt. I have to agree with Ed it sounds a like a lot at stake. Clearly folks were going to be rapping anyway for the filming, and with such an investment involved his point is well-taken that other motivating factors were likely involved with the decisions taken to arrive at that outcome.
Not sure where the dividing line is in this case between simply doing something and investing heavily in a commercial venture built around that doing. Would they really have had a viable product in a film about Half Dome without this climb / FA in it? All in all, the commercial / film aspects of this FA throw the whole affair in an entirely different light - clearly, a bit more than ethics and style were involved the decision making process, which makes this discussion somewhat mute from my perspective. I'd say the better question to ask is whether having a great film on Half Dome was (in a manner of speaking) worth rap bolting to the top for?
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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bhilden: Would it make a difference in anybody's opinion on this topic if
the FA party had just inspected the face on rappel, scoped out the line and
then bolted it on lead from the ground up?
DR: Most places it's too steep to stance drill. It's scallpoed and polished
in a way that doesn't lend itself to hook drilling.
So their choice: Attempt to put up another scare-fest that will rarely get
climbed, and then if climbed, done so only by the very elite. Or put up a
route that can be enjoyed by enthusiasts?
I see the opinion that this is not an actual step forward, and that of all
places to do this, Half Dome. Does it not seem ironic that the man who's
picture on the cover of National Geographic, of him climbing Half Dome,
ushered in the age of clean climbing is the same person who helped open
Growing Up?
How many Grade VI free climbs have been established without any aid? Are there
any in the Valley?
If you dis this route, yet climb and enjoy routes that were put in in less
than perfect style, are you not a hypocrite?
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
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I think I just woke up...
Ed wrote, "The filming and extensive photo-documentation is another aspect of this particular climb that suggests there is more to the story than just putting a "modern" route up the South Face of Half Dome."
I will not claim this is what Ed was alluding to, but I now see the possibility of this being nothing more than a commercial venture. Sean gets more sponsor money to buy more bolts and a longer rap rope. Doug has a new reel to show to investors. Shawn has a cover shot and plenty of stock images to sell. And everyone is talking about the whole thing. There is no bad PR...
EDIT: Do you need a permit to make a commercial film in the Park? I think I know the answer.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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There aren't any "enthusiasts" that will do a route with that many 5.11 & 5.12 pitches on it. It's still for the elite.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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There aren't any "enthusiasts" that will do a route with that many
5.11 & 5.12 pitches on it. It's still for the elite.
This climb is in the range of many, many climbers.
The other routes on the S Face, few x few.
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socalbolter
Sport climber
Silverado, CA
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OK, I've now read this entire thread (no small feat) and figured I'd throw in my thoughts.
When first reading the mag article and seeing the pictures I was psyched. It looks to be a beautiful line up a seldom visited piece of stone. For the efforts involved to establish the line, these guys get some applause from this corner.
As to the method in which they bolted the upper portion, I can't take offense. But, I'll be the first to point out that I'm primarily a sport climber these days and that more and more, I too place bolts on rappel. In my mind the quality of the climbing, correct location of the protection, etc. left behind by the one doing the bolting matters more (to me) than the way in which they were placed.
I don't know either of the FA party members, but know that they seem to have both fans and haters in this community (as shown in the posts above). As such, I can't really speak to their integrity or character personally.
The thing that sticks in my mind the most negatively about this whole thing is the publicity side of it. Properly photographing this route, and now we find out filming it as well if that happened, requires a lot of added work and a certain amount of hubris when setting the whole thing up before hand. It also explains some of the necessity for a successful, complete ascent. I really don't have a problem with the route itself or the decisions made in how the upper portion was protected, but it seems as though the marketability of the route had as much to do with the FA party's motivation as the climbing itself. In my mind, that's a real shame.
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TradIsGood
Chalkless climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Getting paid to do something fun is unamerican.
Next thing you know we'll have a commissioner, drug testing, and Spitzer will want to do it.
Let's have a Congressional hearing before this gets entirely out of hand!
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
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Is it a torch, or a burning cow pie?
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Then other SFHD routes are within the range of many many "enthusiasts" also.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Chop it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
fattrad, instead of resorting to violence, perhaps see this has an opportunity. Free climb
up to where they started rap-bolting, then bust out on your own ground-up route.
Sucks, you could even call it "Growing Ys."
PS. If you chop it, would you do it ground-up style? Much like Robbins on the DW.
To rap in and chop wouldn't really make the best statement.
EDIT: Reading backwards, I see Karl already mentioned this option,
sorry, not trying to steal ideas ;-)
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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The funny part is that some people on his tread wouldn't be offended by more bolts, placed in wrong spot as long as the route was done ground up....because it fits into their almost Taliban way of thinking how we should rock climb. Weird.
The route looks beautiful. Hopefully someone will climb the route and give a first hand account on the quality of the stone and protection situation.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Then other SFHD routes are within the range of many many "enthusiasts" also.
Now you're just being belligerent. My bet, this route gets repeated before any other SFHD
route gets a repeat. And that it will tally more ascents than any of the other existing
routes, combined. Check back in 10 years...
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Again, it turns out, this wasn't simply a matter of the ethics, style, and choices made during the course of a climb - there was clearly much more going on then that. That could be an ethical debate all on its own, and arguing these issues like it was a normal FA in the face of the added goals, motivations, pressures (and camera rap lines) of a film project seems a bit pointless.
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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k-man, while I would agree with you and admit that is prolly correct, is it right ?
Hundreds of climbers have enjoyed the shite out of a particular rap-bolted 5.8 face/slab climb of my doing, BUT
....those that have climbed my few ground-up trad 5.11's walked away with an experience similar to that of my own--challenge and gratification of the unknown.
Neither is right, both are justified, but maybe we should look at it this way:
Will DR, SJ (and others) look back on the route the way that JB (and others) look back at the B-Y route ? Prolly not, due to the style and circumstances--and it is for them to live with, we can only critique.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Dingus wrote: Dawn Wall all over again. Same argument, nearly 4 decades later.
DMT
I wonder who going to play the part of Royal this time???
Joe, Fat, Bruce...???
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
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"We are confronted with insurmountable opportunities"
Or perhaps better...
"We have met the enemy and he is us."
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Not me - I try not to mix business with pleasure...
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Note to ihateplastic: with regard to Werner and I getting all native sitting around listening to stones:
In the old days our people had no education. All their wisdom and knowledge came to them from dreams. They tested their dreams and in that way learned their own strength. - Ojibwa Elder.
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
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Bd'A asked, "I wonder who going to play the part of Royal this time???"
Ah yes, and who will punch whom in the parking lot?
Is it really John's baby? Stay tuned for more of The Edge of Half Dome.
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After the ADA mandated shuttle is set up so you don't have to hike.
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