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jstan
climber
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Sep 17, 2007 - 01:14am PT
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I don't know how others do slabs but I am in Anders's camp. I believe I have never done even one slab climb straight on. For that climb I have an image of a dog leg right in my head. Beats me why. Still no recollection of a 100' run out.
Someone who has done the climb recently or who still has memory left will check in I am sure. Which brings up an old joke.
An old guy and his wife were headed to the Doctor's for tests. She tells him to be prepared for urine,fecal, and semen tests. He says, "WHAT?" She repeats her instructions. He says, "WHAT"S THAT YOU SAID?"
She says, "BRING YOUR UNDERWEAR."
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Sep 17, 2007 - 08:26am PT
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I think that Spencer is correct about their being little protection on the fourth pitch of the right side of Goodrich, whether you wander around or not. The same could be said for other old routes on the Apron. Roper’s Green guide says that there is a bolt on the lower part of that pitch, but it sounds like it is the last one until you get to ledges nearer the belay. It may be the case that Royal or TM got a knife blade in somewhere (1964 was pre-nuts) since neither purposefully created difficulties, as far as I know, and Roper does not mention a long run-out.
It is interesting that the route was not noted for the run-out. I had never heard of it before I took a client up there in the early 1970s. I remember thinking it was really easy but un-nerving since eventually you have to get a belay, and I was only carrying nuts and slings. I do remember thinking that if you stayed on your feet you probably would not slide very far--it is rough rock and low angle. I doubt that Royal or TM would have used that as a reason not to place a bolt. But that might be the reason additional bolts have not been added.
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Spencer Adkisson
Trad climber
Reno, NV
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Sep 17, 2007 - 12:20pm PT
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Interesting stuff fellas. I'll put that route on the list Jaybro. I work with TM, so I'll ask him about what the FA was like...if he even remembers.
Roger, the one bolt you get is actually a fixed pin. I believe the middle mark of the rope passed through the 'biner on the pin before the belay was reached. That's a pretty long run-out in my book. I didn't know Royal was on the FA team. No wonder.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Sep 17, 2007 - 12:27pm PT
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Umm, my often defaced original Meyers guide indicates that at some time or other I've done all the routes on Goodrich. Mostly in the 1970s and early 1980s - that is, with EBs, hexes, stoppers, early Friends, and whatever was already there.
We do quite a lot of slab climbing at Squamish, so the concept is quite familiar.
Two related things - with modern shoes and sticky rubber, it is sometimes possible to stop and place bolts where it wouldn't have possible to do so with EBs, RDs, Kronhoffers, etc. Hand drilling, even of your basic Rawl compression bolt, has never been fun, apart from the ethical considerations. Which further helps explain why there aren't many bolts on some of these routes.
On a side note, now that you've identified a concern, it would be most public-spirited of you to go back to Goodrich, and replace the existing fixed anchors with modern bolts. You could even do it as part of the FaceLift - must count as restoring and cleaning up a trail or something. You could probably enlist some experienced help, get some advice as to what should be done where, and work on nearby routes at the same time.
Edit: Oh well, thought it was worth a try. If we don't look after ourselves, and the places and climbs we cherish, who will?
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Spencer Adkisson
Trad climber
Reno, NV
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Sep 17, 2007 - 12:37pm PT
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I don't know about that. All the pro on the route is pretty solid, just a bit run-out for my taste. To others it may be just fine. Plus, my vacation just ended. 10 days in the valley, and now I'm back to singin' the workin' man's blues.
Edit: If somebody wanted to replace bad bolts/pro they could replace the anchor on the second pitch of Little John Right on El Cap. You are supposed to climb up a corner, then step left and traverse to easier ground to the top of a ledge. Most people miss the traverse...we did. So you end up going straight to the top of a corner, and belaying under a little roof type thing. There is one solid bold (thank God), one rusty 1/4" that I wouldn't even use to tie up my dog, and one fixed rusty stopper, with two or three other rusty stoppers that came out of the crack, and are just blowing in the breeze. To top it off, there is a total rat's-nest of sun-bleached webbing. If I had brought my knife, I would have cleaned up the webbing, but the other fixed pro really needs to be upgraded. Great project for somebody. ASCA? I will donate all the hardwear! How about it eh?
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lukea
Trad climber
U.K
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Sep 17, 2007 - 01:21pm PT
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check out the following link.
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=277
There has been a big effort recently to rebolt the slate quarries. This is an area of amazing adventure cliimbing in North Wales in the UK, which was developed in the 80's.
The climbs are a mix of pure trad and bolted - and a lot of the bolted routes are adventure bolted with 2 or 3 bolts in a full rope length and lots of bold injury / death potential.
The climbing is awesome, but a lot of the (often few) bolts had corroded since placed and were also cheap builders bolts, so the climbs werent getting done anymore.
The area is now getting re bolted, and mostly the bolts are being replaced bolt for bolt. This means the climbs retain 100% of their original character and risk, but can be climbed again!
Additionally, in a few routes, bolts are being added to make (mostly non-classic secondary) lines that were very hairy less bold so they get climbed more, but this is being done ONLY with the first ascentionists permission.
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Spencer Adkisson
Trad climber
Reno, NV
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Sep 17, 2007 - 05:58pm PT
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I just talked to TM. He said that he was not part of the first ascent of Goodrich. He might have done a variation, but it was someone else who did the FA. When I asked him about the run-out on pitch 4, he said flatly, "Yeah, that's why I won't climb there anymore." Very interesting indeed...
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Sep 17, 2007 - 09:33pm PT
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When I think about it, to TM the right side of Goodrich was probably a variation on the regular route--the left side. So, he could be speaking the truth and still be denying that he climbed the route with Royal and Liz. Besides, he cannot just up and deny the Roper guide from 1971: it is true even if it didn't happen.
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gunsmoke
Trad climber
Clackamas, Oregon
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Sep 17, 2007 - 10:26pm PT
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I can't remember what I did in 1994, let alone 1964.
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Spencer Adkisson
Trad climber
Reno, NV
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Sep 17, 2007 - 11:27pm PT
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Hey Roger, you may be right. In any case, TM and I agree, a little too run-out to be much fun. Better off climbing a different route.
"Besides, he cannot just up and deny the Roper guide from 1971: it is true even if it didn't happen."---Hahahaha, classic!
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scuffy b
climber
The deck above the 5
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Sep 18, 2007 - 11:48am PT
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Spencer, clarify this for me, please.
On Little John, you're saying that the anchor which is not part
of the climb should be upgraded?
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Spencer Adkisson
Trad climber
Reno, NV
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Sep 18, 2007 - 02:04pm PT
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OK, I'm a jackass.
I was just looking at the topo for Goodrich Pinnacle Right, which I should have done in the first place, and it clearly shows a jaunt out right on pitch 4 to a belay, and continuing on a 5th pitch before the chimney past three bolts to another belay. The route we took?...5.9R var. No Pro, 165' to belay 6. Yikes, no wonder we were sh#tting twinkies!
scruffyB, Yes...more or less. If you look at the topo for Little John Right, from the first belay it shows a 5.7 mantle, then you get two fixed pins (and some gear), then a traverse left, 10 feet above the second piton (don't go too high). But everybody goes too high. Enough people that it is a pretty frequent occurrence anyway. The belay you reach if you just keep going up is part of the Dorn Direct. It's a sucker corner that, if you stay in it, and miss the traverse, you're screwed. So then you can rap off to the ledge after the traverse (where you are supposed to be, and finish the route proper. It is that anchor (sucker corner leading to Dorn Direct) that is way sketch-ball, and really should be upgraded.
Weither or not people continue on with the Dorn Direct is almost irrelevant in my book, because enough people are going to do exactly what we did, and rap off that totally jankey anchor back to the top of pitch one of Little John Right, where the bolts are bomber, that I think it is justified to bomb-out that anchor. Actually, it the anchor there was upgraded, then you really could climb the sucker corner, then rap and finish Little John, and get a bonus pitch of great 5.7 lieback and jam climbing, without the, "OMG, we have one bolt, and the equivilant to double-sided scotch tape for an anchor...we're gonna die!" type of experience.
I hope that clarifies what I said. Look at the topo, and you will see what I mean.
----Spencer
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jstan
climber
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Sep 18, 2007 - 02:21pm PT
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"Author:
jstan
climber
From:
I don't know how others do slabs but I am in Anders's camp. I believe I have never done even one slab climb straight on. For that climb I have an image of a dog leg right in my head. Beats me why. Still no recollection of a 100' run out. "
_
I believe I shall have to hire someone to pat me on the back. When you get old doing it yourself raises hell with the shoulder.
Since I have done only three GPA climbs all told perhaps it is not too surprising that I remembered something. The third climb I very much remember. Pete Ramins and I did Punch Bowl. Absolutely brilliant route. If the rock won't stop coming down, I suggest we make a plaster cast of the Punch Bowl and build a copy in Tuolomne.
By the way Spencer, you made a great contribution here. I believe you have something called props(?) coming.
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Spencer Adkisson
Trad climber
Reno, NV
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Sep 18, 2007 - 02:49pm PT
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jstan,
Well, it just goes to show that you have a memory like a steele trap...Rusted shut! Hahaha. I kidd.
Yeah, rockfall is another issue over there. It is very cool, however, to see where the forest has tried to grow back after the rockfall way around on the left side, past the Grack, and the trees all laid down the same direction on the ground, and the other trees snapped-off at mid height. That must have been one doozy of an event. My friend and I were talking about that just before we did the Grack. If something else cut loose, which it surely will again, you would have absolutely no where to go. Just turn around, enjoy the view, and kiss it goodbye, because it's over.
Oh yeah, we also saw two juvenile bears at the base of the Grack, so if anyone goes over there, don't leave your packs with food in them at the bottom of the climb. The bears don't have ear tags, but it's best not to give them thbe taste of human food (Bear Crack).
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Sep 18, 2007 - 05:59pm PT
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It took me three tries before I found that traverse on Little John.
~~~~
[Back on topic ...]
I'm still having a hard time trying to figure out what we're talking about when we say "museum climbs."
How about an example: Do you consider the recently rebolted Greasy But Groovy to be a museum climb? Why or why not?
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Sep 18, 2007 - 06:33pm PT
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What a kick ass thread, great concept and some unexpected, quirky turns.
Spencer, if you know Gregor the Finke, at that place you work, encourage him to get his asz out of those lame boats and back to the crags!
Weegripes, it's called multitasking. Now, back to which?
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
In the mountains... somewhere...
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Sep 18, 2007 - 06:36pm PT
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Ah wes, if only you had a soul. Maybe you haven't noticed, but that seems to be part of what this thread is about. And it's obvious to all why you just don't get it.
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scuffy b
climber
The deck above the 5
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Sep 18, 2007 - 06:41pm PT
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Spencer, I understand what you mean about the LittleJohn thing.
It didn't sound as good, until your explanation.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Sep 18, 2007 - 06:47pm PT
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Weschrist: 264 posts/7 days = nearly 38 posts a day.
If only I didn't have a life...
You call lurking on climbing sites and counting post a life?
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Sep 18, 2007 - 06:57pm PT
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What's the characters per post ratio? That will tell us who has a soul!
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