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Dusty
Trad climber
up & down highway 99
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Props to Shipoopi for his post. I wouldn't be too recalcitrant about what you did, bro... it's a passionate issue and you're a passionate guy. If someone can't forgive you for being yourself and caring about something then f**k them. It sounds like you've already come to terms with the whole thing and forgiven the other dudes... so good on you, yr a class act as usual. More importantly, did you make it Paine this year??
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Al Fylak
Mountain climber
Rochester Hills, MI
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Kelly:
Eventhough we have different opinions on rights to place and chop bolts, I did enjoy your response .. thought provoking for sure.
One problem with the idea that "choppping is as right a placing a bolt (paraphased)" is that the chopped bolt can then be replaced, and chopped, and replaced, and ... we have an ugly mess and alot of holes?! I guess this follows with a theory of electronics that a hole can not be created or destroyed, but only moved.
I do believe that some bolts are unnecessary, but as many folks have already said .. just don't clip it.
And chopped bolts (holes) are about as ugly as unnecessary bolts. Most folks would not bother to fill the hole.
For what it's worth,
Al Fylak
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wbw
climber
'cross the great divide
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I agree with the poster from Italy. Whether one agrees that the Compressor Route is a worthy route or not, keep in mind that it was done even before Patagonia was a name on a stylish outdoor garment. Very few people had heard of Patagonia at the time it was climbed.
While I do not admire the *style* in which it was climbed, I think it is pretty arrogant to characterize Maestri as not up to the challenge of climbing Cerro Torre, or to characterize the Compressor Route as anything but a demanding alpine climb.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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History vs sacrilege. Sacrilege vs history. Yada yada. We're blue in the face already.
What I want to hear about is this rumor that Bachar is taking viagra.
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paganmonkeyboy
Trad climber
the blighted lands of hatu
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she is a thing of beauty...
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alaskan
climber
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just back from 4 months in argentina.it seemed something of this order was coming when,in december,while having a discussion with a famous patagonia climber, i heard of this intention.at the same time i was schooled about how if you do an ascent in patagonia in a style other than that sanctioned by the famous climbers it actually doesnt count.i mean i thought it was interesting but i couldnt really care too much because i mostly just wanted to enjoy my trip to the other end of the world and im just a cragger anyway.it seems like there would be more fun things to do in such a great place thats really expensive to get too,but i guess if your sponsored by the companies you represent,and moneys no problem,what better way to get in the press than step on the entire climbing communities toes,declare yourself the supreme leader of style,and piss everyone off,especially the locals who you would never have to see again because they live 8000 miles and a difficult visa process away from you.its brilliant really.and it must make the companies proud to see their boys out spreading the word.as for the fight i think it should have been a scheduled event,i do enjoy watching a good ultimate match from time to time and i think its a great sport.i also think the park service there,which is fast becoming regulated and controlled in a more yosemite fashion[i.e. the destuction of the historical bridwell hut with no discussion with the support of famous patagoia climbers] must also be impressed by this statement by people who are willing to take control and tell the rest of us lame climbers how its going to be.we have been lacking that leadership for some time now.its amazing we've been so stylisticly lost for so long.and lastly i really appreciate the fact that these amazing famous people,who's skills ill never in several lifetimes hope to emulate,and who care about the mountains more than anyone else in the world,would take the time to bring the same vibes and dramas that prevail at our great areas in north america and europe to this corner of the world so we wouldnt feel out of place or like we were in a foriegn place or anything uncomfortable like that.thanks guys,really cool.i mean i rarely climb anything higher than 30 feet but what an inspiration to be more like one of these big mountain gods who know exactly how everything should be and arent afraid,in a time when people are getting slaughtered wholesale in asia and other places and theres so many other serious topics to get wrapped in,to devote so much energy to this cause,to see to it the rest of us follow their lead,cudos brah,,,,oh yea nice job on the alaska book,but unfortunately it only covers a few routes in the ALASKA RANGE,which is one of several large mountain ranges in alaska.wheres the rest of the climbs in the state?although i realize most climbers think alaska is somewhere near talkeetna,you could at least have some wrangells or st eliases or brooks ranges or coast ranges ,so we would know where to climb up here,i mean if your going to name a guide book "alaska" and all.nice photos though.wheres the boulders?
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cintune
climber
Penn's Woods
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.... the rest of us have to... follow suit.... and... get slaughtered wholesale? Like people in Asia? I don't think the climbing gods want that.
Okay, not what you meant, but still a little confusing. Otherwise excellent rant.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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So, uh ... Snooky? You are beginning to sound like a really pathetic whiner. If you have an issue with John, why not take it up with him directly via email?
Or if you have an issue with his past bolt-related practices, then why not describe specific situations, and ask him what was up with them, and how he feels about things now?
To take shots at John Bachar - arguably "our" brassiest-balled free soloist along with Peter Croft - whilst hiding behind a anonymous identity is the most cowardly move of all, not to mention demonstrating to all of us how microscopically small your own bollocks are.
Cheers,
Pete [of modest bollock-size, and the bollocks of whom usual shrivel when approaching the base of El Cap for yet another wall season]
Karl - yeah, baby! Here's to global warming!
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Kevster
Trad climber
Evergreen, CO
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The topo says it ALL.....no summit for you!
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WBraun
climber
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Thanks Clint for the topo.
You are always the master of finding useful information.
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Lando
climber
Tulsa
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SO....ALL I WANT TO KNOW IS....DID SHINGO SUMMIT FITZ FINALLY???????
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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The topo gives me the impression that there are big grids of bolts blanketing certain areas of the rock. Is that just for shading, or do all the little x's really mean bolts?
Edit...to make it clear that I stay far away from snow in case the x's are a snow/ice thing?
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darod
Trad climber
South Side Billburg
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Melissa, the little x's are both, to mark bolts and to mark snowfields, so those areas are that, not just a bunch of bolts....
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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That's very confusing from the point of view of this looky-lou!
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deuce4
Big Wall climber
the Southwest
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Random tidbit:
One thing I found interesting about the "90 meter (bolt) traverse" is that appeared to me that Maestri bolted out right rather than stay on the ridge (as the British had done before) simply to stay out of the wind. It is a very sheltered place, relatively speaking.
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Gregory Crouch
Social climber
Goleta, California
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Donini thinks it's a via ferrata?
His memory's worse than I thought.
Maestri probably lied about his route; Jim's definitely lying about his age.
What a bunch of morons we all are.
As I said above: anemomania
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guest
climber
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Yeah, Melissa, like Darod said, it's some of both with the X symbols. But ya can kind of get a feel for it by tracing along from belay to belay and figuring out where the snowpatches are, and in doing so ya realize what a mind-boggling obsession the guy had -- about 400 bolts! Talk about obsessed. Good thing his obsession wasn't with something like being a serial killer or whatever, or we'd all be in trouble. Took two seasons worth of work, if I have it right, to utterly pummel the thing into submission. And then he chopped the final bit himself on his descent so nobody could repeat it. All this in part to "prove" his 1959 claim, of climbing an exponentially harder and more improbably route in a style light-years ahead of the day. Right.
As an aside, I've noticed mention that 1970 was different from today -- indeed, true, and it's a worthy point to consider, applying today's standards (which will soon seem antiquated) to a different era. But even then it was widely considered a travesty. The great, old, British mag Mountain soon after ran a cover story entitled “Cerro Torre, a Mountain Desecrated.” But, over time and for better or worse, it seems that enough people have been psyched to have a relatively accessible way up an otherwise unimaginably inhospitable peak, albeit by over-the-top means according to nearly any worldwide standards (even in 1970), that it gained acceptance over time. Thus, it seems, much of the public stance softened. Not all, of course, as we still see today. It brings up interesting thoughts regarding what we seek in the mountains to begin with, and what we'll accept if the peak is beautiful enough and we want to climb it, regardless of the means or the route. Is the Everest mess, with its deservedly derided three-ring circus of people who just want to get to the top, no matter how, much different? Perhaps some similarities in mentality there, no? (Aw geez, my "no" sure opens me up to be blasted with rotten tomatoes -- no?)
--Kelly
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